The CALL, Is there One Call to All or not

[Allan]

Wow, I didn't expect this much traffic on here.
However, I will try to address as much as possible but I am backed up a bit in some things which is why I haven't responded till now. AND my wife is getting a little irritated with me on the computer so much lately (studies, e-mail, blogging) so I promised to degress somewhat. I have to head out to preach this morning so I wll addess only what I remember off the top of head. JNE1600 I will get back with you since it was you and I that first began this conversation, please be patient with me :thumbsup:


Ye please look CLOSELY at the first AND at the next verse Pinoy:

John 1:12- " But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
Now, watch the next verse:John 1:13 - "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the

NOTE: To those who RECEIVED Him, it was to THEM He GAVE the right to be called the Sons of God
The next first states NOT that God MADE (irresistable call) them recieve but that any who DID RECEIVE but the next verse shows this salvation is not due to mans wanting OUTSIDE of God as I have stated many time before. It is the next verse that clarifies this as salvation is not due to a blood line (by blood) any good a man can do (by the will of flesh) nor is it by mans desire (by the will of man) OUTSIDE of God.

There is none on here that I know of who deny a person CAN NOT come to Christ unless God initiate the relationship.

However the reason for this OP: Is there one calling to the few, or is the calling to all - with regard to the empowering for that salvation we hold most dear.

Man if left to himself will not seek God, therefore it is God who must initiate. That is what John 1:12-13 is about in context of the verses 1-18. Moses brought the law but Jesus brought Grace and truth. He is the light that LIGHTETH every man that cometh into the world - guess which translation

And as BLAMMO stated scripture; Faith COMES by hearing and hearing BY the Word of God. Not in any phrasology: Faith comes only to the elect by hearing and hearing by the Word of God..

REFORMEDBEILVER Stated:

Those who reject His call are damned as a result.

Uh, not accoding to your theology~ They were damned BEFORE they heard the Call remember: God knew before creation that man would fall and it was from THERE (mans decision for damnation) that God decreed the Elect from those IN damnation already.

 

[whatever]

They were damned BEFORE they heard the Call remember: God knew before creation that man would fall and it was from THERE (mans decision for damnation) that God decreed the Elect from those IN damnation already.

It is better to say that they remain condemned because of their unbelief. John 3:17-18 makes that clear. But, the decrees do not depend on foreknowledge of any man's choices.

 

[jne1611]

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And your point is?

 

[jne1611]

You brought up about little babies and being lost, not me. I just told you we believe they must come to an age of accountablilty before they are going to Hell but you are the one who suggested they would be lost.



Every last one of them will be believers and have the faith.

Yes. Yes. Believers. Those FIRST who were given to the Son by the Father, WILL BELIEVE.

 

[jne1611]

They are dead in a sense they are separated from God. If sinners could not hear the Call then the Calvinist need to quit saying "except my Father draw him".

That makes no sense Bob. For the Calvinist says. The dead get their hearing from the drawing that brings them to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[jne1611]

that depends on the meaning of "draw him"

Exactly.:thumbs:

 

[jne1611]

Then you were no longer dead at that point. You did not come to life because you heard it. The Spirit brought you to life so you can hear the call to eternal life.

2 Timothy 1:9-10 - " Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"

You heard it, and responded, because your stopped ears have already been unstopped when you were born again because it was God's will for you to be born again, and not because you heard the gospel.
As a result, you received Christ, in the same manner that those living during Christ's time on earth received Him.

John 1:12- " But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

Now, watch the next verse:

John 1:13 - "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Ain't about what you did, 'sall about what God did.

AMEN! AMEN!

 

[Brother Bob]

It is better to say that they remain condemned because of their unbelief. John 3:17-18 makes that clear. But, the decrees do not depend on foreknowledge of any man's choices.

Yes, don't sound good that God Decreed it, does it?

 

[Brother Bob]

That makes no sense Bob. For the Calvinist says. The dead get their hearing from the drawing that brings them to the knowledge of the truth.

You seem to be saying it is all in one, correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by pinoybaptist
Then you were no longer dead at that point. You did not come to life because you heard it. The Spirit brought you to life so you can hear the call to eternal life.

Think what you are saying, are there two Salvations?

 

[pinoybaptist]

[/b][/i]
Think what you are saying, are there two Salvations?

(PB peeks outta his dugout and says):

Huh ? Whatcha talkin' 'bout, BB ? Wherever did I say anythin' 'bout 'em two sahlveyshuns ?

(PB ducks back into his dugout).

 

[EdSutton]

jne;
Get yourself a pen to write with and put down the crayons please

:laugh: :tongue3: :laugh:

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world. There are elect who are not yet born. God is patient, waiting until the last of the elect are born, hear the Gospel and respond. He was not necessarily waiting on those during Peter's day ( although He was also waiting on them too ) but waiting on the last of His sheep to be brought into this world and hear His voice. I pray the last one has been born already. By the way.... if He is waiting on those who by their free will shall respond... what about all the babies born between the time the free willers grow to an age of accountability and then by their free will respond? Don't those babies get a chance to grow up and choose? Can He ever come back in that case? When the last of the elect are born and are regenerated, He will come back.

Granted, I'm somewhat late even looking at this thread. Someone has said that "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." So, I'll lay claim to everything 'cept the first word in that sentence. Probably still this is foolish, however.
Uh- who's the 'Ed' that the thread referred to earlier? That's first off.

Second, it seems to me that the above paragraph is extremely long on 'theological speak' and double-talk, and extremely short on Scripture, save in the use of some Scriptural words and terms. Uh- anyone else notice this? Or is it just me?

Back to the sidelines, I trot.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Those drawn, are raised at the last day. What does that tell you? There is no talk of the drawn rejecting Christ in the context is there? All of those given are drawn, taught, and come to Christ.
And Matt 22:14 says nothing about being drawn by the Father.

Uh, (with a bow to BrotherBob) for the "crayon poster" :laugh: :laugh: , why does the last phrase in John 6:45 rate large type, bold face, and underlining, and the two phrases preceding it, i.e., the first half of the verse, namely

"It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God."

not rate the same treatment? (Also kinda' obscures the "therefore" which undoubtedly for a reason is there for.) Same verse, Same Bible, Same version, but different treatment. Just wonderin'!

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Not willing that sheep not yet born should perish but come to repentance?
Not willing that babies should perish, but come to repentance?

All those aborted babies are going to hell?

Nah! Just the "unelected" ones! :tear:

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Dead men do not hear.

Uh- I wonder if Jesus, Lazarus, and Jairus' daughter and maybe even Ezekiel in the 'Valley of Bones' might disagree with this statement?

Ed

 

[jne1611]

You seem to be saying it is all in one, correct me if I am wrong.

I cant speak for everyone else. But, I believe it all happens at once myself. Yes in an order of events, but all at once.

 

[jne1611]

Uh, (with a bow to BrotherBob) for the "crayon poster" , why does the last phrase in John 6:45 rate large type, bold face, and underlining, and the two phrases preceding it, i.e., the first half of the verse, namely

"It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God."

not rate the same treatment? (Also kinda' obscures the "therefore" which undoubtedly for a reason is there for.) Same verse, Same Bible, Same version, but different treatment. Just wonderin'!

Ed

No comment necessary to this nonsense, but if you wish. I put emphasis on those words, not because of them dominating over the other texts, but because most wish they were not there, so I figured I would make it plain.
I'll bet you would not have had a problem with colours if John 3:16 would have been the text.:laugh: Besides the colours come from the Bible program I use. Get over it.raying:

 

[EdSutton]

You sir are being dishonest again and misrepresenting me. Why do you have to resort to dishonesty and misrepresentation? I quit responding to you once before and it seems I'll have to do that again until you become honest and stop with the slander. Give it a break bro bob.

I'll grant that you did not make the direct statement about babies going to hell. But BrotherBob is correct when he says you first brought up the subject of babies, here in this thread. (Grimacing as I admit to actually agreeing with Brother Bob, for once. :tongue3: ) And since I am only a dumb farmer, and no preacher or no theologian, I do wonder how I should interpret this post, as to what you meant, if it is not suggesting that at least 'some' "babies go to hell"?

The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world. There are elect who are not yet born. God is patient, waiting until the last of the elect are born, hear the Gospel and respond. He was not necessarily waiting on those during Peter's day ( although He was also waiting on them too ) but waiting on the last of His sheep to be brought into this world and hear His voice. I pray the last one has been born already. By the way.... if He is waiting on those who by their free will shall respond... what about all the babies born between the time the free willers grow to an age of accountability and then by their free will respond? Don't those babies get a chance to grow up and choose? Can He ever come back in that case? When the last of the elect are born and are regenerated, He will come back.

You did ask a question, but the tenor of some of the rest of the post would suggest this to me, at least.

Ed

 

[jne1611]

Uh- I wonder if Jesus, Lazarus, and Jairus' daughter and maybe even Ezekiel in the 'Valley of Bones' might disagree with this statement?

Ed

Uh. Have you read where they were resurrected? Do you think they jumped up before they were given life?





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