The CALL, Is there One Call to All or not

No one said they had the POWER but that they could hear Jesus while they were dead is the point.

Amen,

Bingo,!!

 

Hello ED,

Lets just ask THE Doctor

Christ said....

Tis very clear indeed. Do you not agree?


In Christ...James

 

John 1:11-13 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

Well, I'm all for context. Let's look at it briefly. So I'll quote from the very reliable sources of Jesus, God the Holy Spirit, and John. I do tend to trust them, as to context.

I believe in the text, the raising up refers back to "No one" and "draw", not forward to "All", from the similie used by Jesus. Be that as it may. To my knowledge, there are two passages that speak of some 'drawing', and both have 'all' in their context. Does all mean all, or merely a part of the 'all'? Is this 'all' somehow differrent from that of, say, Rom. 3:23, where 'all' have sinned and come short of the glory of God", or a couple of other locales including Rom. 5: 12 where "all" sinned (in Adam) and "death spread to 'all 'men. or Gal. 3:22 where 'all' are confined under sin? How about II Peter 3:9 where it is said "...but that 'all' should come to repentance." Is there a difference in 'all' as opposed to 'all'?

Maybe it is just me, but somehow, I just cannot see the Bible and God as anywhere akin to George Orwell and Animal Farm 'where "all" the animals in the barnyard are equal; it's just that some are more equal than others.'

For my God is not like that, as unlike most theologians from all points along the spectrum, "Truly, I understand that God is no respecter of persons." (Acts 10:34b)

Ed

 

OK Ed. On those grounds of interpretation, I will ask you then, "Who does Christ refer to in the whole passage as being raised up in the last day"? Anyone but those given to Him? The "does all mean all" is the most dead argument in the book. There are plenty of passages that use the word "all" that would force you to either accept that it is not speaking of the whole human race or that it means the whole human race will be saved. That's the importance of context.
And if you do tend to trust Christ according to context, then trust this:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Those drawn are those raised in the last day. Those taught, hear & have learned of the Father come to Christ. Who are they?

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Answer: Those given to Christ by His Father.

So, if you are true to your tendency to believe the context of the Lord, then you have no problem with the fact that His elect will be drawn, taught, hear, & learn of the Father, & so come to Christ for salvation.

Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Only those given to Christ by the Father will receive eternal life. No more, No less.

 

Hello Bob,

The point as I see it...Who gives life??

Tis God.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Tis God..Man had nothing to do with it.

Psalms 16:11 You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
Tis God that SHOWS..Tis not man that leads the way.



Psalms 36:5-9 Your mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; Your faithfulness reaches to the clouds. Your righteousness is like the great mountains; Your judgments are a great deep; O LORD, You preserve man and beast. How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings. They are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house, And You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures. For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light we see light.
Tis God that gives life in rain..Man has nothing to do with it.


Luke 9:23-25 Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
If Man comes on his own...He will lose his life. Tis God...that gives life to the one with no life. God saves

John 5:21-27 "For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. ...........(Snip)

......... "Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, "and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Tis God that gives life...Tis God that lets the dead hear....and notice...THOSE THAT HEAR...live.

John 10:27-30 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. "I and My Father are one."
Tis God that gives to the Son..Man had nothing to do with it.

Romans 5:20-21 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Tis God though GRACE that gives life..Man is died in sin


2 Peter 1:2-3 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,

Tis God that gives life and CALLS His elect ..The called ...are only believes .

Revelation 2:7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."'
IF you can hear...hear this...Tis God that gives from the tree of life


In Christ...James

 

Correctemundo, BrotherBob!

Uh- What night is 'Bingo' night, at your church? I might drop in for it occasionally. What could I win?

Ed

 

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
The context is clear. Those given are drawn by the Father, believe on the Son, & are raised at the last day.

 

Indeed.

Not born of Blood......Nation

Not born into it by your father.....

Not Born because we will it so....

BUT..........

BORN OF GOD​

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: Amen!

 

First....I have no idea who the Ed is that some thread refers to. Which thread?
Second, if you have no clue to which scripture speaks of those who are chosen before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) then I suppose there is no reason to discuss this with you. Umm ....... last time I checked we were discussing theology ( theological speak ). What double talk? If you really do need the obvious scripture references, just let me know and i'll try to help you. I think that Blammo knows exactly what I was saying to him. Maybe you can get him to explain what I was saying. I'm tired today and don't really feel like re-hashing it.

 

Hello reformedbeliever,

I'll take the Ed part, for it was me that posted the Ed reply to the OP.

This thread was a carry over from a now closed thread. The passage that was being looked at near the end of the last thread was Romans 8. The subject was Called....and Allan did not think the Bible ever used the word other then in one form. That being all men are called. This is where Romans 8 was posted and showed to Allan that in some cases it is used as election.

Allan replied with many verses...but in addressing the text in Romans 8...highlighted his main point. That point was Ed. Let me show you...

Thus I ask...what does Ed have to do with it?

Being that everyone other then you has overlooked this...let me answer. The only thing Ed has to do with the statement is that it shows that it has been done. So it changes nothing, does it?

Now the next word that was used alot to show there is only one calling is.."foreknow". If you read the OP Allan puts a small twist on what is said by most freewillers. In doing so, I guess he thinks he has made things fit together. But has he said any thing new? Lets look.

It is said by freewillers that God elects because He foreknows who will believe. There are 2 things that must be addressed here.

1) When did God know, what He knows?

2) If God knows, is it now set in stone never to change?

 

You think I have a problem with that? :laugh: When have I ever said that I gave myself eternal life?

I believed and was born of God. It was His will and His work. I have never said otherwise.

 

:laugh: Thanks brother. I had no idea what Ed was talking about.... as he apparently has no idea what I was talking about when I responded to a question Blammo had. I think if he really went back and read all the replies to the thread, he would maybe not be so confused. Brother bob seemed to not understand what I was saying either....... didn't have a clue. I think they thought I was saying that babies go to hell.... oh well..... thats what they want to believe calvinists advocate. Maybe it cranks their tractor to believe such nonsense... whatever! It may be that they just really don't have a clue...lol. At least Blammo knew what I was saying, since he said I gave him a good answer. Maybe Blammo is becoming a calvinist! :laugh: Just yanking your chain Blammo... Grace and peace

 

Good..

For many overlook the part..."not by the WILL of man".

I'm glad you do not.

 

It seems more and more people do not see this verse as coupling with the receiving of Christ in the verse before.

 

Hello Allan,

I may not have much time this week, so I thought I would just go ahead and address other matters in your post, while I wait on your "foreknow" reply.

From the OP...

So no one will be mislead by context, lets post the whole text.

Now you posted many verses...look at john..matt...romans...but never did address this fully.

In verse 14...who is this group? Is the "called" saved? Are the "chosen" saved? Who is cast into outer darkness? Was "all" or "many" invited? If this calling is for service, are some saints not called to serve? If this is for service, if you do not serve are you cast out into darkness? Notice it was the person that was cast out.

Or..is this salvation?

 

Don't worry about the complaints Allan. You started the thread, if they don't like it, they can go to another thread.