The Called

[convicted1]

Did the man in 1 Cor 5:5 have 'fellowship with the father'?

1 Cor. 5:5-13 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


Paul is telling the Corinthian church to banish this person from amongst them. That way they may realize they weren't what they were to begin with and be saved. This person never had fellowship with God to begin with.

 

[glfredrick]

Those who are called and respond are the elect.

From our vantage point...

From God's vantage point those who are the elect respond to the call.

God, after all, is God and gives the marching orders as the King of all kings. We respond to those orders. I cannot imagine the scenario whereby we might direct the activities of the King.

 

[kyredneck]

1 Cor. 5:5-13 ....This person never had fellowship with God to begin with.

That's quite an assumption Willis.

I was going to ask what part of 'that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus' is it that you don't understand. But if you're going on that assumption you're not going to understand it.

Paul delivered Hymenaeus and Alexander unto Satan that they might be taught. I suppose you assume these two had never had fellowship either.

I see it this way:

if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2:13

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

He remains faithful to us even in our chastisements and judgements.

13 each man`s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man`s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man`s work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man`s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire. 1 Cor 3

 

[convicted1]

That's quite an assumption Willis.

I was going to ask what part of 'that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus' is it that you don't understand. But if you're going on that assumption you're not going to understand it.

Paul delivered Hymenaeus and Alexander unto Satan that they might be taught. I suppose you assume these two had never had fellowship either.

I see it this way:

if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2:13

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

He remains faithful to us even in our chastisements and judgements.

13 each man`s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man`s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man`s work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man`s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire. 1 Cor 3

Well, I have a feeling that the Corinthian church is much like today's churches. Not everyone who is "dunked" in H2O is a true believer. I believe that Paul was telling this church to "drive this one from amonst you", IOW.

 

[gb93433]

Well, I have a feeling that the Corinthian church is much like today's churches. Not everyone who is "dunked" in H2O is a true believer. I believe that Paul was telling this church to "drive this one from amonst you", IOW.

It is called church discipline.

 

[convicted1]

It is called church discipline.

Correct. When someone in the church is acting "unseemly", you are to go to that person by yourself. If they hear you, you have gained "thy Brother". If they won't hear you, you are to take one or two with you, so that the witness of two or three may be established. If this doesn't work, you're to bring them to the church, and if that fails, they get "das boot" (Matthew 18).

Apparently, this individual was at the point of "das boot"??

If you have to go this far, did this person have salvation to begin with? This is an honest question.

 

[kyredneck]

Well, I have a feeling that the Corinthian church is much like today's churches. Not everyone who is "dunked" in H2O is a true believer. I believe that Paul was telling this church to "drive this one from amonst you", IOW.

FYI, the man of 1 Cor 5:5 was 'reinstated':

6 Sufficient to such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the many;
7 so that contrariwise ye should rather forgive him and comfort him, lest by any means such a one should be swallowed up with his overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you to confirm your love toward him. 2 Cor 2

 

[gb93433]

Correct. When someone in the church is acting "unseemly", you are to go to that person by yourself. If they hear you, you have gained "thy Brother". If they won't hear you, you are to take one or two with you, so that the witness of two or three may be established. If this doesn't work, you're to bring them to the church, and if that fails, they get "das boot" (Matthew 18).

Apparently, this individual was at the point of "das boot"??

Over the past few years I have been reading that the estimate of churches plagued by one of more antagonists is between 70 and 80 percent. Says a lot about the feminine men in churches today.

 

[webdog]

All scriptures must harmonise to understand the truth.

Agreed, which renders your view as being false doctrine. This is very similar to the millenial exclusionists who maintain true believers will be out of fellowship with the Lord for the millenial suffering along with those who rejected Him. This view was branded a "damnable heresy" on this site.

 

[convicted1]

FYI, the man of 1 Cor 5:5 was 'reinstated':

6 Sufficient to such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the many;
7 so that contrariwise ye should rather forgive him and comfort him, lest by any means such a one should be swallowed up with his overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you to confirm your love toward him. 2 Cor 2

Well, an ORB Elder told me they used to have a custom of calling someone who had been turned out, they still called him/her Brother/Sister. This way, they may repent and be reinstated.

 

[convicted1]

Over the past few years I have been reading that the estimate of churches plagued by one of more antagonists is between 70 and 80 percent. Says a lot about the feminine men in churches today.

Are you saying "henpecked" husbands are the ones who stir up most of the trouble?

 

[glfredrick]

Are you saying "henpecked" husbands are the ones who stir up most of the trouble?

Bet it is their hen-pecking wives... :laugh:

 

[MB]

Can you point me to a verse or passage where the words pastor and called are used in the same passage or verse?

Well maybe not the specific word Pastor how ever I can show where Christ called the disciples and they were latter called Apostles which is really just another word for preacher.
Here you go
Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
I know you may laugh but don't forget Christ called each one of them to follow Him.
Your turn; Can you quote just one passage where men are called to be saved?
MB

 

[gb93433]

Are you saying "henpecked" husbands are the ones who stir up most of the trouble?

It is the feminine men who will not stand against trouble.

 

[gb93433]

Well maybe not the specific word Pastor how ever I can show where Christ called the disciples and they were latter called Apostles which is really just another word for preacher.
Here you go
Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
I know you may laugh but don't forget Christ called each one of them to follow Him.
Your turn; Can you quote just one passage where men are called to be saved?
MB

They knew what it was like not to be the standard of being selected to study under a rabbi. Jesus called them to come follow Him. It would be much like a fisherman fishing on a boat catching fish to make a living and being selected to study under the best teachers today.

The reason I ask is I believe there is a lot of hype by denominational leaders who mislead people to believe that God calls pastors. What happens when that pastor gets sick? Did god leave him? I find in the scriptures that if one desires to be . . ."

For quite a number of years I desired to turn dying churches around until recently. In recent years especially I find so many who are in churches that have been dying for years and they need an extra push to die simply because their arrogance out shines their proof of ministry. Some of the greatest men I have known who are reaching others and making disciples are not pastors in a church.

 

[MB]

Are you saying "henpecked" husbands are the ones who stir up most of the trouble?

Hen pecked???? I have yet to meet the married man who is not hen pecked. Women sometimes let men think they are in control but that's as far as it goes. Myself I'm blessed my wife is smart enough to rule better than even me. Of course she allows me my manly dignity of supreme leadership of the house hold but when all the cards are played I can blame it all on her.:laugh:
MB

 

[gb93433]

Hen pecked???? I have yet to meet the married man who is not hen pecked. Women sometimes let men think they are in control but that's as far as it goes. Myself I'm blessed my wife is smart enough to rule better than even me. Of course she allows me my manly dignity of supreme leadership of the house hold but when all the cards are played I can blame it all on her.:laugh:
MB

That happens a lot in male dominated churches when they refuse to acknowledge the value of women in ministry. You can always tell when a leader says, "My wife doesn't understand . . . ." It is more like he does not understand and uses his wife to disguise the truth.

My wife and I were married in a church where there was a waiting list of men wanting to be leaders. Leaders were always being trained. It was not a staff led church but the staff equipped the people. The church had four staff and 1.5 secretaries for a church of 1200.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Well, this thread certainly fooled me.

From the OP I thought Forest was asking a legitimate question and looking for legitimate answers. As it turns out, he sucked us all in so he could ridicule our responses. He already had firm beliefs on who the Called were, and is not interested in any other beliefs. He just wanted us to respond so that he could agrue with us.

The OP was posted under false pretenses, and therefore was not a TRUTHFUL nor HONEST question.

Next time why don't you just say something like "here is what I believe on this topic, would anyone care to debate me on it?"

That would be honest, whereas your question was deceitful.

The OP question was dishonest, deceitful and was not truthfull, and we all know what the oppisite of "not truthfull" is.

John

 

[Forest]

Well, this thread certainly fooled me.

From the OP I thought Forest was asking a legitimate question and looking for legitimate answers. As it turns out, he sucked us all in so he could ridicule our responses. He already had firm beliefs on who the Called were, and is not interested in any other beliefs. He just wanted us to respond so that he could agrue with us.

The OP was posted under false pretenses, and therefore was not a TRUTHFUL nor HONEST question.

Next time why don't you just say something like "here is what I believe on this topic, would anyone care to debate me on it?"

That would be honest, whereas your question was deceitful.

The OP question was dishonest, deceitful and was not truthfull, and we all know what the oppisite of "not truthfull" is.

John

It has always made me sad that most of the religeous world cuts God short of his power and ability to eternally save those that he wants to save. Most of the believing world will claim that man has to help God, or accept certain things to help them to obtain their eternal salvation. My belief is that God eternally saves us by his grace alone, without the help of man. I am a firm believer that before a person can understand the truth of the gospel, the Holy Spirit has to reveal the truth to them, so I cannot explain any scripture to a persons understanding without God revealing it to them.

 

[webdog]

And now Forest has shown us how to erect a strawman...and burn that baby down! Bravo :applause: