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The Catholic Church Is Not Entirely False And Does Worship The Biblical And Historical Jesus As God
- Thread starter John Yurich
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No, we do not "re-crucify" Christ - that happened but once. We hold true to what Christ tells the faithful to do, to "re-present" that day on Calvary. "Do this in memory of me" and "This is my Body", "This is my Blood" proclaim the Scriptures!
The Bible says it, the Universal (Catholic) Church teaches it, and Christian history going back 2000 years proves it. The Mass existed for over a thousand years before your sect was even formed. You are completely and totally misguided on the issue.
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Torah says - DONT DRINK BLOOD
Torah says - HUMAN FLESH IS UNCLEAN
Yeshua did not invent transubstantiation (what a nice long word that sounds pretty legit). Yeshua meant: Devour my word (torah) and accept my sacrifice ----- Repeated in Rev 14:12
Don't giggle, repent of your falsehoods! Stop bearing false witness because if you don't things will not go well for you at the end.
"This is my Body".
"This is my Blood"
"For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink"
While the outward appearances are bread and wine, what really exists is something else entirely! You have little faith my friend!
If I believe hard enough the bread turns into human flesh? alakazam alakazoo I transubstantiate you
Or, Yeshua was 100% torah obedient and did not advocate cannibalism.
I refer you back to my previous post. Many people left the faith because they could not accept this reality (as the Scriptures tell us).
In this end this how this happens is a sacred mystery. Transubstantiation is but an attempt to explain this.
As long as the liberal pope says so.
Also, around 20% of the priests are estimated to be gay now. I hope you keep any kids far away.
Roman Catholics never denied the necessity of grace for salvation. They denied the sufficiency of grace for salvation.
That is not just a Roman Catholic phenomenon. It is more prevalent than you think.
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; -He. 5.9
We are saved by grace through faith unto good works (Eph. 2.8-10), and faith in Christ is always accompanied by works (Jas. 2.18). Justification by faith does not deny this because it is an obedient faith, the faith of Abraham (Ro. 4). However, works do not add anything to justification.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -Mt. 7.21
We are saved by grace through faith unto good works (Eph. 2.8-10), and faith in Christ is always accompanied by works (Jas. 2.18). Justification by faith does not deny this because it is an obedient faith, the faith of Abraham (Ro. 4). However, works do not add anything to justification.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -Mt. 7.21
YESSSSSSSSSSS!
Dr . Bruno VAN de VLIET
New Member
The Catholic Church states in her catechism that the god of the muslims is also their god, therefore the god they are worshiping can not be the God of the Bible. The god of the muslims 'allah' is nothing more than an idol. If the catholics pray to that same god they are worshiping an idol.
RC talk of this. The Scriptures not a word. And I doubt if any Protestants are aware of any difference.
Hello SBG, you have given some good responses, but, going to have to disagree with you on this one, as we are told we are righteous through faith in Christ in Scripture:
Romans 3:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Even if we ascribed the "faith in view here to the Lord Jesus Christ, we still see that this righteousness is unto and upon all (links inserted to verify no translation insertions exist in the texts) who believe, which establishes the faith of the one the righteousness is imputed to.
God bless.
As one pointed out earlier, misunderstanding Christ's statement concerning His flesh and blood began the moment He first taught of this concept, which does not mean "Devour my word (torah)," but does mean "accept my sacrifice," so once again we see you mingle truth and error.
Present one passage in which the Lord equates His death (which is precisely what He is speaking about in John 6) with the Torah.
Just one will do.
God bless.
Just as in the observance of Passover the conditions of the First Passover in which the firstborn died did not continue exist, even so we do not see a repeat of the Lord's suffering and death when we observe Communion.
1 Corinthians 11:26
King James Version (KJV)
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Salvation is an event that takes place at conversion, and it is then that we fulfill the Lord's command to believe on His Sacrifice. It is at that moment we receive Eternal Life, which the True Bread from Heaven came to bestow upon men.
God bless.
James would certainly disagree with you, for he makes it clear Abraham was justified by works:
James 2:21-24
King James Version (KJV)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The typical commentary by Catholics and Protestant in their unending debate over this issue has, in my view, a very simple solution: both are wrong.
I would suggest that based on the indisputable fact that Jesus Christ obtained (the right to bestow) Eternal Redemption through the very Cross (His Offering/Sacrifice) and it was at that point men were eternally redeemed and declared righteous based on the Work of Christ and this through faith in Christ...
...that we acknowledge that neither Paul nor James are trying to establish that they were eternally redeemed by either the (general) faith in God they exhibited, or, the works which evidenced that faith (which is what James is teaching about above).
Consider:
Romans 3:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Prior to the establishment of the New Covenant and the receiving of the Promises of God made under Old Testament conditions, men were not eternally redeemed through the sacrifices offered up for atonement of sin. While it is popular pulpit mythology that the Old Testament Saints were "saved on credit," we do not see a support for such a view in Scripture. They were "saved" from the eternal perspective by grace through faith, and their eternal destiny just as secure as every born again believer saved after the Cross and Pentecost, but, the simple fact is that even though Abraham was justified by faith, and works, he was not...
...imputed with the righteousness of Christ through faith in Christ.
Romans 3:21-26
King James Version (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
The "all" of v.23 refers to Abraham as well as everyone else.
The "now" refers to this Age.
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
So I would suggest a difference between a man being justified for his faith, and being justified through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
All Old Testament Saints, even unto the Thief on the Cross, died still in need of redemption which could come only through the Offering of the Son of God of himself. That basic truth is reiterated throughout the New Testament, yet we still see division concerning how a man is justified.
The sins of the Old Testament Saint could be good reason to see Salvation by Grace through Faith as not only present in the Old Testament, but perhaps to a higher degree, seeing they died apart from Eternal Redemption yet were not consigned to a fate of Eternal Separation:
Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
God bless.
Joh_6:27 “Do not labour for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you,1for the Father, Elohim, has set His seal on Him.” Footnote: 1See vv. 35, 48, 51, 58, and Mt. 4:4.
and this food can be paralleled here:
Mat 4:4 But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.’ ”
and
Amo 8:11 “See, days are coming,” declares the Master יהוה, “that I shall send a hunger in the land, not a hunger for bread, nor a thirst for water, but for hearing the Words of יהוה.
and
Joh_4:34 Yeshua said to them, “My food is to do the desire of Him who sent Me, and to accomplish His work.
Flesh = word of Elohim. Jesus is the word made flesh. The word = torah. (This is basic stuff)
Nothing here about the Lord's death equating to the Torah.
And once again you add to the Word of GOd, changing the text to suit your cult's doctrine.
No-one denies the Word of God is food, what the question asks is for you to support your statement to the effect "The WORD 0or Word) equates to His Flesh.
The Word in view here is coming from the Lord, but is not the Lord.
Again, no equation of "the Torah" and the WORD of God.
John 6 is specific to belief in Christ in His Salvific Ministry.
You corrupt that.
Still no "The Torah=His Death.
No, Jason, The Incarnation does not equate to the Torah.
The Old Testament Saint (under Law) had the Word of God...but they did not have the WORD of God.
That is why we call the passages that foretell His arrival...Prophecy.
And when the WORD did come...
...they rejected Him.
Just as they rejected the Word of God.
The "Torah" you preach is like unto a stream muddied by the trampling of men.
Jesus is the WORD made flesh.
There was no "Torah" given unto men when the Son of God created the World, and that...
...is the Torah you are seeking to turn men away from Christ with.
Basic does not quite cover it.
While we might say "The Word=Torah," because this is very true in certain passages (meaning made clear), we do not say "The WORD (the Son of God)=Torah," or that "The WORD=the Word." The Word is a result of the WORD, just as your posts are a result of you.
When men are given power to become the sons of God, it is not because they worship the written word, it is because they, as Christ teaches in John 6...believe on Christ in regards to His death:
John 6:49-51
King James Version (KJV)
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
The True Bread is the Person of Christ, the Son of God.
The "fathers" had the Torah...and died.
The Torah did not provide Eternal Life. Not then, not now.
The True Bread gives everlasting life, and that Bread is Christ's Flesh, which was offered up to atone for man's sin, that he might be reconciled to God.
God bless.
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