The catholic church recants!

[DHK]

[FONT=&quot]Giordano Bruno was charged with blasphemy, tried at the Inquisition, found guilty, and burned at the stake in 1600
Galileo was brought forth in 1633, and under threat of torture and death was forced to recant all beliefs in Copernican theories. He was thereafter sentenced to imprisonment for the rest of his life.
Earlier to this Copernicus himself had died a natural death, but his work had been condemned as heretical.

Now in a turn-about, the RCC is recanting. I find this hilarious. As if the RCC can make the Dark Ages "light." They can't change the history they created.

[/FONT]

Polish priests rebury Copernicus as hero after astronomer's remains found in unmarked grave
[FONT=&quot]People and priests gather beside the coffin with the remains of astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus, in the catherdral in Frombork, northern Poland, Saturday, May 22, 2010. Copernicus, the 16th-century astronomer whose findings were condemned by the Roman Catholic Church as heretical, was reburied by Polish priests as a hero on Saturday, nearly 500 years after he was laid to rest in an unmarked grave. [/FONT]

The rest of the story can be found here:
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=i31951.xml

 

[lori4dogs]

I hope no one goes blind trying to read this! I need a magnifying glass.

 

[Jerome]

Calvin pontificates about people like Copernicus:
[John Calvin, Sermons sur l'Epitre aux Corinthiens, I Cor. 10:19-24]

Nous en verrons d'aucuns si frenetiques, non pas seulement en la religion, mais pour monstrer par tout qu'ils ont une nature monstrueuse, qu'ils diront que le soliel ne se bouge, et que c'est la terre qui se remue et qu'elle tourne. Quand nous voyons de tels esprits, il faut bien dire que le diable les ait possedez, et que Dieu nous les propose comme des miroirs, pour nous faire demeurer en sa crainte.

roughly translated: Those that say the sun does not move, but the earth, are frenzied, monstrous, and devil-possessed!:laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]Giordano Bruno was charged with blasphemy, tried at the Inquisition, found guilty, and burned at the stake in 1600[/FONT]

Giordano Bruno (1548 – February 17, 1600), born Filippo Bruno, was an Italian Dominican friar, philosopher, mathematician and astronomer, who is best known as a proponent of the infinity of the universe. His cosmological theories went beyond the Copernican model in identifying the sun as just one of an infinite number of independently moving heavenly bodies: he is the first man to have conceptualized the universe as a continuum where the stars we see at night are identical in nature to the Sun. He was burned at the stake by authorities in 1600 after the Roman Inquisition found him guilty of heresy.

Here is the question to be addressed.

1. What teaching of Christ suggests that his followers would be torturing anyone by burning them at the stake?

2. Was this act by the Catholic Church in the dark ages something that the church today considers to be "infallible" - something that the RCC cannot even to this day - admit to have been in error?

In Rome he was imprisoned for seven years during his lengthy trial, lastly in the Tower of Nona. Some important documents about the trial are lost, but others have been preserved, among them a summary of the proceedings that was rediscovered in 1940.[14] The numerous charges against Bruno, based on some of his books as well as on witness accounts, included blasphemy, immoral conduct, and heresy in matters of dogmatic theology, and involved some of the basic doctrines of his philosophy and cosmology. Luigi Firpo lists them as follows:[15]

The trial of Giordano Bruno by the Roman Inquisition. Bronze relief by Ettore Ferrari, Campo de' Fiori, Rome.

• Holding opinions contrary to the Catholic Faith and speaking against it and its ministers.
• Holding erroneous opinions about the Trinity, about Christ's divinity and Incarnation.
• Holding erroneous opinions about Christ.
• Holding erroneous opinions about Transubstantiation and Mass.
• Claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity.
• Believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes.
• Dealing in magics and divination.
• Denying the Virginity of Mary.

In these grim circumstances Bruno continued his Venetian defensive strategy, which consisted in bowing to the Church's dogmatic teachings, while trying to preserve the basis of his philosophy. In particular Bruno held firm to his belief in the plurality of worlds, although he was admonished to abandon it.

His trial was overseen by the Inquisitor Cardinal Bellarmine, who demanded a full recantation, which Bruno eventually refused. Instead he appealed in vain to Pope Clement VIII, hoping to save his life through a partial recantation. The Pope expressed himself in favor of a guilty verdict. Consequently, Bruno was declared a heretic, and told he would be handed over to secular authorities.

Killing someone for "holding opinions" and "beliefs" is a pretty serious charge against the RCC.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[menageriekeeper]

Killing someone for "holding opinions" and "beliefs" is a pretty serious charge against the RCC.

What is worse is that they at the time believed they had the authority from God to do these things and held to this belief in spite of the fact that scriptures give no man the authority to force another to believe anything. The audactiy and arrogance of this belief is astounding to me.

Sadly, I see threads of it still in existance today, with this group and that claiming that they are the "only" way to God, when Christ claims that position for Himself.

 

[BobRyan]

Very often the Christian view is that the Christian Church is "the only way to God" -- however that still does not justify "burning someone" at the stake for "holding opinions" contrary to a specific church.

I doubt that the view that the Christian church offers the true - one and only Gospel - is the root problem.

Rather it is more likely the Mark 7 issue of substituting man in the place of God.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[billwald]

So the Catholic Church has admitted making mistakes. Has any Protestant denomination admitted making mistakes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münster_Rebellion

for example? You Baptists are taught about this in your SS classes?

 

[BobRyan]

So the Catholic Church has admitted making mistakes. Has any Protestant denomination admitted making mistakes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münster_Rebellion

for example? You Baptists are taught about this in your SS classes?

Interesting story -

After the Peasants' War (1524/25), a second and more determined attempt to establish a theocracy was made at Münster, in Westphalia (1532–1535). Here the group had gained considerable influence, through the adhesion of Bernhard Rothmann, the Lutheran pastor, and several prominent citizens; and the leaders

To put your question in perspective - does any church claim today to be the SAME denomination or church that had any part in any of the activities listed at Munster? If so - let them stand and be counted.

The Catholic church today - claims to be the SAME church as is recorded in the dark ages. They claim that their canons of law made in the dark ages - are still infallibly without error. Lateran IV comes to mind.

If such a argument is also being made by any denomination today regarding the deeds done in Münster in 1535 - let them speak up. Let them NOT claim that they were infallibly without error in the past - and let them admit to their own history and publish an apology.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[billwald]

OK, then if the modern Klan was to claim that they are a new Klan and no part of the historical Klan . . . .

 

[BobRyan]

Most observers will quickly "notice" that the Catholic church of today claims to be the Catholic church of the dark ages.

Did I miss something?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[menageriekeeper]

You Baptists are taught about this in your SS classes?

I'm sorry, but my Basist church doesn't have roots that extend that far back. However, I know that the same arrogance that led the Catholic church to believe it had a divine right to force men to belief also infected a great many who would claim the title Protestant. So yes, I know about Munster and other terrible deeds that were done in the name of stamping out "heresy".

All it was on both sides was a quest for power that God never intended His church to have on this earth.

The difference between Protestants and their decendents and Catholics of the "dark ages" and their, is that the Catholic Church today still believes it should have the authority to rule. Otherwise, Vatican City, would be under the rule of the Italian government. Just one of those vestages of yester-year.

Even the Anglican church no longers believes it should hold any sort of government powers. The rest of us, never had designs on such to begin with.

 

[DHK]

The difference between Protestants and their decendents and Catholics of the "dark ages" and their, is that the Catholic Church today still believes it should have the authority to rule.

And now that "authority is being challenged in court!

The case is Holy See v. John Doe, 09-1.

A lawsuit against the Vatican that had been dismissed as a publicity stunt moved forward when the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal from the Holy See. Monday's development represents a significant advance for what many believed to be a long-shot claim that the Vatican bears legal responsibility for molester priests.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w19793.xml

 

[John of Japan]

So the Catholic Church has admitted making mistakes. Has any Protestant denomination admitted making mistakes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münster_Rebellion

for example? You Baptists are taught about this in your SS classes?

Ridiculous! You apparantly don't understand the Baptist distinctives. The Munster Rebellion specifically opposes the Baptist belief in the separation of church and state. Therefore, these Anabaptists were not Baptists and we have no reason to recant their errors.

 

[menageriekeeper]

That is interesting DHK. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Ridiculous! You apparantly don't understand the Baptist distinctives. The Munster Rebellion specifically opposes the Baptist belief in the separation of church and state. Therefore, these Anabaptists were not Baptists and we have no reason to recant their errors.

Indeed the evangelical Anabaptists opposed the Munsterites as much as did the Reformers but not with violence. The Munsterities were pedobaptists not Anabaptists. This is the same Catholic lie that has been perpetuated for centuries about the Munsterites when there is clear and overwhelming historical evidence they were not Anabaptists.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Here is the question to be addressed.

1. What teaching of Christ suggests that his followers would be torturing anyone by burning them at the stake?

2. Was this act by the Catholic Church in the dark ages something that the church today considers to be "infallible" - something that the RCC cannot even to this day - admit to have been in error?



Killing someone for "holding opinions" and "beliefs" is a pretty serious charge against the RCC.

in Christ,

Bob

God killed people for their opinions in Exodus.

Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."

And Jesus is God. So, this is also Jesus' teaching. :tongue3:

 

[Dr. Walter]

God killed people for their opinions in Exodus.

And Jesus is God. So, this is also Jesus' teaching. :tongue3:

Are you now supporting the theory that Rome acted under the leadership and revealed will of God in killing other professed believers?

God has the right to take the life of any of his creatures. He has the right to chasten one nation by bringing other nations upon them. Israel had the right to put to death heretics as they were a theocracy with civil law.

Are you now suggesting that the church of Jesus Christ is a theocracy with civil law to justify the inquisitions??? If not, then why present such a stupid argument????

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Are you now supporting the theory that Rome acted under the leadership and revealed will of God in killing other professed believers?

God has the right to take the life of any of his creatures. He has the right to chasten one nation by bringing other nations upon them. Israel had the right to put to death heretics as they were a theocracy with civil law.

Are you now suggesting that the church of Jesus Christ is a theocracy with civil law to justify the inquisitions??? If not, then why present such a stupid argument????

I'm saying God should take the Levites and do away with successionist!

You have no clue about sarcasm now do you? Did you not see my emodicon? And Jesus will rule with a rod of iron. I think you better duck or you might get smacked upside the head with it. :tongue3: <- emodicon. Indicates I'm being sarcastic.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I'm saying God should take the Levites and do away with successionist!

You have no clue about sarcasm now do you? Did you not see my emodicon? And Jesus will rule with a rod of iron. I think you better duck or you might get smacked upside the head with it. :tongue3: <- emodicon. Indicates I'm being sarcastic.[/QUOT]

Oh, I believe you were being sacastic alright but not against error.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm saying God should take the Levites and do away with successionist!

You have no clue about sarcasm now do you? Did you not see my emodicon? And Jesus will rule with a rod of iron. I think you better duck or you might get smacked upside the head with it. :tongue3: <- emodicon. Indicates I'm being sarcastic.[/QUOT]

Oh, I believe you were being sacastic alright but not against error.

If I wasn't being sarcastic against the idea of Jesus telling us to kill a bunch of people what was I being sarcastic against?