The catholic church recants!

[DHK]

If we start with what our Lord and Saviour taught, this does not mean the rest of the Bible is unimportant.

We have started. You refuse to listen, but only want to play word games.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Now for the simple verse that you cannot refute. If it is not true, then it is a simple denial of the Word of God.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

We are justified by faith alone, not by faith plus anything else, but by faith alone as the verse teaches. If you deny this you deny the plain teaching of this verse.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

These verses do teach justification/salvation by faith, but not by faith ALONE. Jesus did not teach today's popular faith ALONE doctrine.

 

[DHK]

These verses do teach justification/salvation by faith, but not by faith ALONE. Jesus did not teach today's popular faith ALONE doctrine.

You just deny what the Bible says. I quote to you Scripture which is undeniable. But you say it is not what the Scripture teaches offering no alternative. You have lost the debate before you have even started.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

The alternative I offer is as follows: Let's honestly look at EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about justification/salvation before we conclude that it is by faith ALONE. I preached the faith ALONE doctrine for almost 30 years, then I dared to look at EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about this subject. This study took place when I was laying the groundwork for planting a new Baptist church in my community, and it forced me to scrap my plans.

 

[Dr. Walter]

These verses do teach justification/salvation by faith, but not by faith ALONE. Jesus did not teach today's popular faith ALONE doctrine.

As I said, it is Christ alone, his Person and redemptive work that justifies the sinner and therefore His Person and redemptive work are ALONE the object of faith. It is not the nature of faith, the action of faith or the fruits that faith which justify but the object of faith and the object of faith ALONE without your life contributions.

What you have done is replaced Christ with faith and then defined faith to include your contributions as the basis for justification before God.

Christ as the object of faith alone is illustrated in Abraham and Sarah. God waited until they could not CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING to obtaining the promise of God! They simply embraced the promise of God as the object of their faith and hope while God's power provided God's promise (Rom. 4:17-22) and even thus we are justified (Rom. 4:23-25).

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Faith itself is an instrumental cause of justification/salvation. Romans 4 brings this out.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Faith itself is an instrumental cause of justification/salvation. Romans 4 brings this out.

Demons believe "IN" God and so faith is not the cause of justification, instrumental or otherwise. Faith saves no one, justifies no one. Demons believe "IN" God but that justifies no one. Hence, it is not faith that is the cause but the object of faith is the cause and the ability to REST ones faith in the object that justifies is given by God (Jn. 6:64-65) and ALL that the Father giveth to the Son shall come = believe and "OF ALL" given to the Son "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING."

 

[Dr. Walter]

Demons believe "IN" God and so faith is not the cause of justification, instrumental or otherwise. Faith saves no one, justifies no one. Demons believe "IN" God but that justifies no one. Hence, it is not faith that is the cause but the object of faith is the cause and the ability to REST ones faith in the object that justifies is given by God (Jn. 6:64-65) and ALL that the Father giveth to the Son shall come = believe and "OF ALL" given to the Son "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING."

Rom. 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

However, your interpretation of faith would force Paul to say:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace TO THE END the promise might be POTENTIALLY sure to all the seed."

 

[DHK]

The alternative I offer is as follows: Let's honestly look at EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about justification/salvation before we conclude that it is by faith ALONE. I preached the faith ALONE doctrine for almost 30 years, then I dared to look at EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about this subject. This study took place when I was laying the groundwork for planting a new Baptist church in my community, and it forced me to scrap my plans.

I too am a former Roman Catholic. I left the heresy of faith plus works that I had been taught for 20 years in a church organization that taught this blatant heresy. When I was saved it was by faith alone.

I was saved through grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone.
And that is the only way one can be saved.
If you think that there is any other way to be saved, then the message you preach is accursed and Paul states that the messenger is accursed (Gal.1:8).

Still you haven't provided a shred of evidence that the Bible teaches anything but justification is by faith alone.
Romans 5:1 Being therefore justified by faith we have peace with God.
Nothing could be any clearer.

 

[Dr. Walter]

In John 6:39,40 and 44 there is the same essential phrase that concludes each of these verses "but should raise it up again at the last day.

The first time Jesus uses it is in verse 39 is to REAFFIRM the phrase "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING" but instead of suffering any loss "but should raise it up again at the last day." Here he plainly teaches that "OF ALL" that come to Christ all shall be raised up to the resurrection of life so that I SHALL LOSE NOTHING.

The second time Jesus uses it is in verse 40 to REAFFIRM the phrase "may have everlasting life" and therefore "and I will raise him up at the last day" to the resurrection of life demanding again as first used "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING."

The third time Jesus uses it is in verse 44 to REAFFIRM the phrase "except the Father which hath sent me draw him:" and then to REAFFIRM "him" being drawn SHALL NOT BE LOST he immediately says for the third time, and I will raise him up at the last day..

Verse 45 again demonstrates that "ALL" who are under consideration by the prophet shall be taught of God and thus "EVERYONE" having heard and learned in this teaching session "shall come to me"

Therefore, these three Affirmations in verses 39,40,and 44 demonstrate that it is the same "him" under consideration in all three verses and therefore "OF ALL" that the Father gives and draws come to Christ and "I SHALL LOSE NOTHING" is reaffirmed by the promise of resurrection to eternal life to these regarded individually "him."

Finally, in John 6:65 Jesus intentionally refers the audiance back to his words in John 6:44 but changes the word "draw" to the phrase "given unto HIM of my Father" to show that saving faith that is missing in those in verse 64 must be "given" by the Father or they cannot come to him as TRUE BELIEVERS.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

DHK, Although I have no use for Roman Catholicism, it at least acknowledges the fact that the Bible does not teach justification/salvation by faith ALONE. It at least deals honestly with Jesus' words in Matthew 5:20-7:29; 10:22,32-33; 12:33-37,50; 16:24-27; 18:21-35; 19:16-22; 22:34-40; 24:45-51; 25:31-46. This is just for starters!

The RCC at least does not make the major mistake of reading Martin Luther's interpretation of Paul's teachings into the teachings of Christ! This is what Protestants do when they subscribe to the doctrine of justification/salvation by faith ALONE.

 

[Dr. Walter]

The alternative I offer is as follows: Let's honestly look at EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about justification/salvation before we conclude that it is by faith ALONE. I preached the faith ALONE doctrine for almost 30 years, then I dared to look at EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about this subject. This study took place when I was laying the groundwork for planting a new Baptist church in my community, and it forced me to scrap my plans.

I am sure every apostate from "the faith" has their own convincing story of how they left the truth and embraced heresy. I will interpret Jesus on the subject of justification by faith through the inspired commentary of Paul as he deals with it in much more precise theological detail than Jesus because Jesus never intended to provide a systematic theological treatise on the subject. Paul contributes many entire chapters just to define and defend the true doctrine from the false doctrine whereas you wish to return to the parables, allegories and preaching sermons of Christ.

Christ sent Paul ahead to provide the systematic treatment and defense of this subject because he knew fellows like you were coming out of the wood work.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

The greatest sermon ever preached was the Sermon on the Mount. It does not teach the doctrine of justification/salvation by faith ALONE.

 

[Dr. Walter]

DHK, Although I have no use for Roman Catholicism, it at least acknowledges the fact that the Bible does not teach justification/salvation by faith ALONE. It at least deals honestly with Jesus' words in Matthew 5:20-7:29; 10:22,32-33; 12:33-37,50; 16:24-27; 18:21-35; 19:16-22; 22:34-40; 24:45-51; 25:31-46. This is just for starters!

The RCC at least does not make the major mistake of reading Martin Luther's interpretation of Paul's teachings into the teachings of Christ! This is what Protestants do when they subscribe to the doctrine of justification/salvation by faith ALONE.

Matthew 5:19 is placed side by side with Matthew 5:20 other than just a numerical order. In Matthew 5:19 those already IN the kingdom can disobey the least of commandments and teach others to disobey them and yet reamain in the kingdom of heaven as "least" in contrast to the "greatest" which means there are all levels in between "least" and "greatest" without anyone's salvation being forfeited.

However, in Matthew 5:20 one cannot even "enter" the kingdom of heaven unless their righteousness EXCEEDS the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. Note this is required to "ENTER" in at the very START rather than like those in verse 19 already in.

What you are blind to, is that the righeousness required to ENTER the kingdom of heaven that must EXCEED that of religious men, is the righteousness that EXCEEDS their interpretation of the righteousness of the law (vv. 21-47) so that it EQUALS the righteous of God (v. 48).

The only place to get that kind of righteousness to ENTER the kingdom of God is by faith in Christ as the foundation "rock" as this is the will of the Father (Jn. 6:40) - "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. and this is the will of the Father at the last day being reaffirmed in Matthew 7:21-23 where some came before God attempting to be justified upon the "SAND" foundation of the MIXTURE of "Lord, Lord" PLUS "have we not done many wonderful works."

However, those already in the kingdom because they entered in upon faith in THE FULFILLMENT OF GOD'S LAW BY CHRIST - Matthew 5:16-18 - the only thing that all their good works determine is REWARD in heaven "least" or "greatest" or somewhere in between." It is the rock that gets you into heaven whereas what you build upon that rock determines only rewards (I Cor. 3:11-15).

You cannot even interpret Christ correctly.