The Catholic Church

[milby]

I have began a study on Catholics to find out if what they believe could possibly, possibly be true.

Here is my first question. Can the Catholics really trace their history back to Peter and were they the first Church? If so and the reformation didn't happen until the 1500's with Martin Luther, were all the people up until the reformation doomed?

 

[Walter]

Please do not advertise RCC propaganda on this website. It is against BB policy and the rules.
Thank you.

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[DHK]

I have began a study on Catholics to find out if what they believe could possibly, possibly be true.

Here is my first question. Can the Catholics really trace their history back to Peter and were they the first Church? If so and the reformation didn't happen until the 1500's with Martin Luther, were all the people up until the reformation doomed?

The RCC claims are bogus. They have no claim back to Peter. They didn't even come into existence until Constantine in the fourth century when Constantine decided to wed Christianity and the State, making it a state-religion. At that time Christianity became paganized, as many idols were introduced into the church as they still remain in the RCC to this day.

Outside of the RCC God has always remained faithful to his own. There have always been churches that have remained faithful to Christ and his Word outside of the RCC in every era and generation since the apostles.

 

[milby]

Please do not advertise RCC propaganda on this website. It is against BB policy and the rules.
Thank you.

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Walter,

I dont know what the heck you are talking about. How in the world is my question promoting RCC propaganda? Check my history. I am definately not Catholic.

Chill out man. Sheesh

 

[Walter]

The RCC claims are bogus. They have no claim back to Peter. They didn't even come into existence until Constantine in the fourth century when Constantine decided to wed Christianity and the State, making it a state-religion. At that time Christianity became paganized, as many idols were introduced into the church as they still remain in the RCC to this day.

Outside of the RCC God has always remained faithful to his own. There have always been churches that have remained faithful to Christ and his Word outside of the RCC in every era and generation since the apostles.

Let's see if you allow anyone to disagree with your perception of Church history since you labeled my mention of a Fundamentalist turning Catholic as 'propaganda' and deleted by post. I posted no links, just mentioned a book I read. You are probably the most biased person on this board.

 

[milby]

The RCC claims are bogus. They have no claim back to Peter. They didn't even come into existence until Constantine in the fourth century when Constantine decided to wed Christianity and the State, making it a state-religion. At that time Christianity became paganized, as many idols were introduced into the church as they still remain in the RCC to this day.

Outside of the RCC God has always remained faithful to his own. There have always been churches that have remained faithful to Christ and his Word outside of the RCC in every era and generation since the apostles.

Thank you. I have not heard that about not even coming into existence until the fourth Century. I was told they went clear back to Peter as the first Pope.

 

[Walter]

Walter,

I dont know what the heck you are talking about. How in the world is my question promoting RCC propaganda? Check my history. I am definately not Catholic.

Chill out man. Sheesh

Unfortunately, you never saw my post! DHK deleted it! What you are seeing is DHK accusing ME of propaganda, not YOU! I mentioned a book I read which obviously DHK hates because it is written by a Fundamentalist who's parents taught at Moody and he consequently became Catholic. I dare not mention the book or the author because DHK will probably ban me.

 

[OldRegular]

were all the people up until the reformation doomed?

That is a strange question for a Christian to ask!

 

[milby]

Unfortunately, you never saw my post! DHK deleted it! What you are seeing is DHK accusing ME of propaganda, not YOU! I mentioned a book I read which obviously DHK hates because it is written by a Fundamentalist who's parents taught at Moody and he consequently became Catholic. I dare not mention the book or the author because DHK will probably ban me.

Oh Ok. Can you send me a private message?

 

[OldRegular]

I believe that much of the Roman Catholic [and Greek Orthodox] Doctrine is heretical. However, I believe there are Christians within those communions.

 

[Walter]

Oh Ok. Can you send me a private message?

On it's way!

 

[milby]

That is a strange question for a Christian to ask!

I know right? How would you answer the question though?

 

[OldRegular]

I know right? How would you answer the question though?

You defend asking it and I will be happy to give you the answer!

 

[DHK]

Unfortunately, you never saw my post! DHK deleted it! What you are seeing is DHK accusing ME of propaganda, not YOU! I mentioned a book I read which obviously DHK hates because it is written by a Fundamentalist who's parents taught at Moody and he consequently became Catholic. I dare not mention the book or the author because DHK will probably ban me.

Walter you list yourself as Baptist, but if I remember correctly you are sympathetic to the Catholics, that is their doctrine. I find that very odd since the command in the Bible in the book of Jude is "to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints," not the RCC.

I deleted your posts because it was a post that violated the BB rules, not because I have any hate for anyone. This is a false accusation by you and in and of itself is worthy of an infraction.
I went to the trouble of quoting from the agreement that you clicked and agreed with when you joined this board. Why do you want to post here if you don't want to abide by the rules that you promised to abide by? Is that the Christian thing to do? Is that how you think the fruit of the Spirit is manifest? There are other boards you can post and spread RCC doctrine and propaganda.

If you knew more of the history of this board you would know why such rules are in place. To put it simple this is a debate forum. It is not for the propaganda or advertisement of the religions of others. So we request that in the discussion of other religions please do not advertise, by links or otherwise, propaganda from their religions.

It is a Baptist site. To post books on testimonies why one should go from Baptist to RCC is unethical on a Baptist site isn't it?
You are a guest here. Posting is a privilege not a right.
If you don't like the rules please don't ask for a refund and you can exit by the back door.

 

[SolaSaint]

On a side note: I was at a Parachurch meeting on Thursday and there were many Catholics there. Every time the subject came up about differing denominations the Catholics there would always call themselves Catholics and call everyone else Christians. It seemed to be a Freudian slip. But isn't it interesting they call us Christians, what do they consider themselves?

 

[milby]

You defend asking it and I will be happy to give you the answer!

I understand. You cant answer the question. Thats ok, no shame in that.

 

[milby]

To put it simple this is a debate forum. It is not for the propaganda or advertisement of the religions of others. So we request that in the discussion of other religions please do not advertise, by links or otherwise, propaganda from their religions.

I thought this was a debate forum under the heading of other denominations. Can we not debate the validity of Catholicism vs. Baptist doctorine?

Like I said before, I am lifelong southern Baptist but I have noticed that Baptist get Very defensive and even angry at the mention of the word Catholic. While the Catholic crowd accepts us as Brothers in Christ although seperated from the "church"

 

[The Biblicist]

I have began a study on Catholics to find out if what they believe could possibly, possibly be true.

Here is my first question. Can the Catholics really trace their history back to Peter and were they the first Church?

If you ask Catholics the answer is always yes. If you ask Protestants or Baptists then the answer is no.

Honestly, take a look at early history and I dare any Catholic to find any universal Pope mentioned or the term "pope" used for any man above other preachers for the first five hundred years.

Look at the Biblical qualifications to be an apostle of Jesus Christ in Acts 1:21-22 and see if any man beyond Paul could even qualify in perpetuating the apostolic office! Look at 1 Corinthians 15:8 and the Greek term translated "last" (eschatos) and how it is used three times in the very chapter and see if it does not demand that Paul was the "last" of all to be chosen personally by Christ to be one of His apostles. Last, look at the metaphors used of the apostolic office and see if they do not restrict it to the first century (Eph. 2:20 "foundation").

Second, see if you can find ANY NEW TESTAMENT RECORD or any New Testament PRECEPT of any infant baptism? The Roman Catholic church cannot exist apart from infant baptism.

Third, the Roman Catholic church cannot exist apart from sacramentalism. The CCC (Catholic Church Catechism) explicitly states that Old Testament circumcision is parallel with New Testament baptism in regard to sacramentalism. Look at Romans 4:11 and you will see that Paul completely denies that the grace of justification was received "in circumcision" but rather not only Abraham but all who He is the Father of are justified without circumcision (and Abraham was the "father of circumcision"). This is the death of Catholicism because if sacramentalism fails the Biblical test the whole ecclesiology and soteriology of Rome burns and crashes.

If so and the reformation didn't happen until the 1500's with Martin Luther, were all the people up until the reformation doomed?

Even the preserved records by Rome clearly indicate there were professed Christians who opposed Rome and were persecuted and killed by the Roman Catholic church. By the way, another proof Rome is not the New Testament Church as persecuting and killing others becuase of their religious beliefs are one mark of false religion (see John 16:1-3; Rev. 17:5).

 

[OldRegular]

I have began a study on Catholics to find out if what they believe could possibly, possibly be true.

Here is my first question. Can the Catholics really trace their history back to Peter and were they the first Church? If so and the reformation didn't happen until the 1500's with Martin Luther, were all the people up until the reformation doomed?

That is a strange question for a Christian to ask!

I understand. You cant answer the question. Thats ok, no shame in that.

I can answer your s????d question; but you need to consider the following:

1. Why do you think Jesus Christ died?

2. Why would God suspend salvation for 1500 years? Consider what you are asking.

Jesus Christ tells us in the Gospel according to John:

John 10:7-11
7. Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Jesus Christ gave his life that we might have eternal life. Do you really think God is going to suspend the salvation of His people for any reason?

Salvation is a supernatural event initiated and finished by God with each individual who is saved. That salvation does not depend on any Church or ecclesiastical group.

 

[Walter]

On a side note: I was at a Parachurch meeting on Thursday and there were many Catholics there. Every time the subject came up about differing denominations the Catholics there would always call themselves Catholics and call everyone else Christians. It seemed to be a Freudian slip. But isn't it interesting they call us Christians, what do they consider themselves?

All the ones I know consider themselves Catholic Christians.