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The Catholic "Salvation"

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Brother Adam, Feb 10, 2004.

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  1. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    LOL, DHK is still convinced I'm a Catholic. Although its interesting he keeps calling me a Catholic when I'm a Baptist. That has to say something.

    I'm going to open Salvation Part II as we've moved away from talking solely about Catholic Salvation to more general terms. I'm going to bring some of DHK's last post into that one to start our discussion.
     
    #261 Brother Adam, Feb 19, 2004
  2. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    "12 original disciples" There were 12 Apostles. The disciples numbered into the thousands during Jesus' ministry. A disciple is a follower of Jesus Christ. Today we would consider anyone who is "saved" a disciple.
     
    #262 Brother Adam, Feb 19, 2004
  3. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Conversely, I would add that if one is not a disciple, that one is not saved. And we cannot follow Christ unless we are willing to deny ourselves and take up our crosses daily. However, God doesn't desire any (including professed "Christians") to perish, but to come to repentance.
    [​IMG]
     
    #263 Doubting Thomas, Feb 19, 2004
  4. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    BrotherAdam,

    I said...

    And you said...

    I'm sure you really believe that I was "adding to scripture". It is definetly in the best interest of the CC to accuse us of that at any opportunity.

    Of course, I was doing no such thing.

    Nope.

    Check the 7th chapter in Romans, verses 4-7...

    "Therefroe my brethren, you also have become dead to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be married to another---to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh the passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the Law, haiving died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter. What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? On the contrary, I would not have known sin except thought the Law. For I would not have known covetiousness, except the law had said 'You shall not covet'."

    Obviously, God is not referring to only the ceremonial laws when He teaches us that we are freed from the law, and that our goodness does not contribute to our justification, since He here uses one of the 10 commandmnets as He teaches us that we are no longer under the Law.

    And He is referring to our adding any goodness of ours to our justification.

    Any goodness. Under the Law, not under the Law. Goodness done in the flesh, or goodness done through the Spirit. Goodness done "in order to obligate God, as if we owed Him anything", or goodness done through gcace.

    We are justified before God through faith alone, and God feels so strongly about that that He curses any "gospel" that incudes our goodness in any way.

    Yes, He did. And the "new covenant" includes that we are justified through faith alone, with our goodness contributing nothing to it.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
    #264 D28guy, Feb 19, 2004
  5. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    BrotherAdam,

    I said...

    And you said...

    I'm sure you really believe that I was "adding to scripture". It is definetly in the best interest of the CC to accuse us of that at any opportunity.

    Of course, I was doing no such thing.

    Nope.

    Check the 7th chapter in Romans, verses 4-7...

    "Therefroe my brethren, you also have become dead to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be married to another---to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh the passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the Law, haiving died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter. What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? On the contrary, I would not have known sin except thought the Law. For I would not have known covetiousness, except the law had said 'You shall not covet'."

    Obviously, God is not referring to only the ceremonial laws when He teaches us that we are freed from the law, and that our goodness does not contribute to our justification, since He here uses one of the 10 commandmnets as He teaches us that we are no longer under the Law.

    And He is referring to our adding any goodness of ours to our justification.

    Any goodness. Under the Law, not under the Law. Goodness done in the flesh, or goodness done through the Spirit. Goodness done "in order to obligate God, as if we owed Him anything", or goodness done through gcace.

    We are justified before God through faith alone, and God feels so strongly about that that He curses any "gospel" that incudes our goodness in any way.

    Yes, He did. And the "new covenant" includes that we are justified through faith alone, with our goodness contributing nothing to it.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
    #265 D28guy, Feb 19, 2004
  6. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    BrotherAdam,

    I said...

    And you said...

    I'm sure you really believe that I was "adding to scripture". It is definetly in the best interest of the CC to accuse us of that at any opportunity.

    Of course, I was doing no such thing.

    Nope.

    Check the 7th chapter in Romans, verses 4-7...

    "Therefroe my brethren, you also have become dead to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be married to another---to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh the passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the Law, haiving died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter. What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? On the contrary, I would not have known sin except thought the Law. For I would not have known covetiousness, except the law had said 'You shall not covet'."

    Obviously, God is not referring to only the ceremonial laws when He teaches us that we are freed from the law, and that our goodness does not contribute to our justification, since He here uses one of the 10 commandmnets as He teaches us that we are no longer under the Law.

    And He is referring to our adding any goodness of ours to our justification.

    Any goodness. Under the Law, not under the Law. Goodness done in the flesh, or goodness done through the Spirit. Goodness done "in order to obligate God, as if we owed Him anything", or goodness done through gcace.

    We are justified before God through faith alone, and God feels so strongly about that that He curses any "gospel" that incudes our goodness in any way.

    Yes, He did. And the "new covenant" includes that we are justified through faith alone, with our goodness contributing nothing to it.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
    #266 D28guy, Feb 19, 2004
  7. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    BrotherAdam,

    I said...

    And you said...

    I'm sure you really believe that I was "adding to scripture". It is definetly in the best interest of the CC to accuse us of that at any opportunity.

    Of course, I was doing no such thing.

    Nope.

    Check the 7th chapter in Romans, verses 4-7...

    "Therefroe my brethren, you also have become dead to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be married to another---to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh the passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the Law, haiving died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter. What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? On the contrary, I would not have known sin except thought the Law. For I would not have known covetiousness, except the law had said 'You shall not covet'."

    Obviously, God is not referring to only the ceremonial laws when He teaches us that we are freed from the law, and that our goodness does not contribute to our justification, since He here uses one of the 10 commandmnets as He teaches us that we are no longer under the Law.

    And He is referring to our adding any goodness of ours to our justification.

    Any goodness. Under the Law, not under the Law. Goodness done in the flesh, or goodness done through the Spirit. Goodness done "in order to obligate God, as if we owed Him anything", or goodness done through gcace.

    We are justified before God through faith alone, and God feels so strongly about that that He curses any "gospel" that incudes our goodness in any way.

    Yes, He did. And the "new covenant" includes that we are justified through faith alone, with our goodness contributing nothing to it.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
    #267 D28guy, Feb 19, 2004
  8. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    So, is the Baptist board whacked out again?
     
    #268 Doubting Thomas, Feb 19, 2004
  9. faithcontender

    faithcontender New Member

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    by Brother Adam,
    In my opinion, based on your many posts, you are baptist in name but true catholic in heart.
     
    #269 faithcontender, Feb 19, 2004
  10. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    4 POSTS???

    What the heck is going on here?

    Mods....please delete 3 of my posts up there. I have no idea how that happened!

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
    #270 D28guy, Feb 19, 2004
  11. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    O.K. I stand corrected. I mixed the two.

    But my point still stands. Can one be saved, and live outside the will of God, no matter how miserable it makes them ?

    And Adam, I think you're Catholic. You certainly sound like one. No offense, just an observation.
     
    #271 Bro. Curtis, Feb 19, 2004
  12. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    "Can one be saved, and live outside the will of God, no matter how miserable it makes them ?"

    Baptists would say as a general rule the person was never saved in the first place. Christ says that those who never show fruit will be cut off and thrown into the fire. I'd say that while this may be true it does not negate the fact that we are saved only through faith in Christ.

    "And Adam, I think you're Catholic. You certainly sound like one. No offense, just an observation."

    None taken. I don't really mind what people have to say about me. Heck, if I was everything folks said was true, I'd the "most mature godly man" and "the godhating anti-christ" all at the same time. I know what I am though, and that is a Baptist. I respect and defend Catholics for what they truly believe, even if I dont' agree with it. They deserve to be heard for what they truly believe and not what a bunch of Jack Chick disciples have to say.
     
    #272 Brother Adam, Feb 19, 2004
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I would disagree with your view of what most Baptists believe. I take the case of Elvis Presley, who I know was saved as a youth. His life, outside of the will of God, was miserable. But I do believe he was saved.

    An O.T. picture would have to be Solomon. If what you say I believe is true, was true, then I would be saying Solomon was never saved, as evidenced by his later life. But that's not what I say. I say Solomon was saved, and lived outside the will of God, and it cost him just about everything. But I'm willing to bet a dollar that Solomon is in Heaven.

    And I know you didn't mean me, but I'm no Jack Chick fan.
     
    #273 Bro. Curtis, Feb 19, 2004
  14. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Brother Adam,

    Thats why I spend so much time in the catholic encyclopedia, the on-line catechism, official Catholic web-sites, the Vatican web-site, Catholic apologetic web-sites, etc.

    Thats how I can be sure that they do present a false gospel and promote idolatry, etc.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
    #274 D28guy, Feb 19, 2004
  15. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    I would disagree with your view of what most Baptists believe

    Perhaps "most" wasn't the correct qualifying word, that just seems to be what I see quite a bit. I know not all Baptists are like that (you, me, a few others ;) ).

    And I know you didn't mean me, but I'm no Jack Chick fan

    Nope, didn't necessarily mean you, but I'm sure glad to hear that!
     
    #275 Brother Adam, Feb 19, 2004
  16. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    Mike, interestingly enough we have come to different conclusions, studing many of the same things.

    I don't believe they promote a false-gospel or practice idolatry. Then again, I also go and ask them about what I read and listen and try to understand. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, and its often proven me right.
     
    #276 Brother Adam, Feb 19, 2004
  17. dumbox1

    dumbox1 Guest

    Hi Singer,

    I haven't forgotten the post I owe you -- just got sidetracked for two days by stomach flu. (Not my favorite way to lose 5 pounds!)

    Anyhow, I'm going to print out that post from T2U and take it home this evening, and hopefully I'll have a chance to look it over and post something tomorrow. (Forgive me if I fail to discuss whatever's gone on in this thread in the meantime -- it seems to be growing like a weed, and I don't have time to look at it all!)

    Mark H.
     
    #277 dumbox1, Feb 19, 2004
  18. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    This thread is approaching 20 pages, so get your last comments in before then folks.
    Gina
     
    #278 Gina B, Feb 19, 2004
  19. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    Thanks, Mark, I'll be looking forward to your return.

    Singer
     
    #279 Singer, Feb 19, 2004
  20. Stephen III

    Stephen III New Member

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    Singer,

    It appears this thread is petering out. Would you care to join in the "christian salvation" thread adam started? I would appreciate viewing your insight into the 3 questions I've posed there that originated here. (or anyone else, it just seems a little slow this evening.)

    If not thanks for the consideration
    God bless
    Steve
     
    #280 Stephen III, Feb 19, 2004
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