Eschatologist,
In answer to your post:
“Baptism is never associated with salvation except symbolically.”
This statement of mine got you so upset that it made you double post. Well the truth has a habit of doing that. For every atom of oxygen there are two atoms of hydrogen. Combined together they make H2O, or water. Any person wanting to believe in the silly superstition that H2O washes away your sins is fine with me, but just don’t say it is of the Bible. We aren’t a superstitious folk. It is the blood of Christ that washes away sin, not water. The waters of baptism can only make you wet. That is all the power they have. Water is made of the elements of the earth—hydrogen and oxygen. Animists worship things like. I hope that you are not placing yourself in that same category. Only Christ can save; baptism cannot.
You can not hardly be any more direct than Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and 1Pet.3:21! Then Romans 6:3, John 3:5, Col.2:12, and Gal.3:27 explains the effects of baptism SYBOLICALLY!!!
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--Take a good look at the last part of the verse. “He that believeth not shall be damned.” There is no mention of baptism there, and for good reason. It isn’t necessary to be baptized for salvation, just as it isn’t necessary not to be baptized to go to Hell. Baptism is not part of the equation here. It is belief, and belief alone. Otherwise the verse would say “believe not and be not baptized shall be damned.” The omission is deliberate for a reason. Baptism is not necessary.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
--“Be baptized…for the remission of sins”
baptized . . . for the remission of sins--as the visible seal of that remission. (Jamieson, Faucett, and Brown)
Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
unto (eis) the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (ASV)
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water
unto (eis) repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
The same Greek word is used in both verses translated “unto.”
Baptize(d) unto repentance/remission
Did John baptize the Pharisees or Jews so that they would receive repentance, or because they had repented? “Unto repentance.” The answer is obvious. Go back and read the full text. Bring fruit meet (fit) for repentance. He would not baptize them unless he saw evidence of repentance. It was because they had repented that he baptized. The word “unto” or “eis” therefore has a meaning “because of,” that is, “I baptize you…because of your repentance.
In the same way “unto” or eis is used in Acts 2:38, “Repent and be baptized “because of” the remission of your sins. Baptism never results in the remission of sins, but is always given after a persons sins has already been remitted by Christ.
1 Peter 3:21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
--What saves? A true likeness does now save you. That doesn’t even say that baptism saves. It says that a likeness saves. Ever heard of a simile, or a figure of speech?
To fully understand this verse you must know the context:
1 Peter 3:20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
--The context is Noah, and how he was saved. Was Noah saved by the water or by the Ark? The water was the means by which the world and the inhabitants were destroyed. It was an instrument of destruction to the people; an instrument of cleansing to the earth. It was the ark that saved Noah. The ark was a picture of Christ. They were safe in the Ark, as the believer is safe in Christ. The ark was immersed in the oceans of the deep, the waves slapping on the sides of the ark, the rains coming from above. It was immersed. The word baptism is simply a word meaning “immersed.” It does not always refer to water baptism, nor even to spirit baptism. It is simply a word meaning immersed. The ark was immersed in water. The ark was the instrument of salvation to Noah, as Christ is the instrument of salvation to every believer. Without Christ you cannot be saved. Without the ark they could not be saved.
In verse 21 it says “also after a true likeness does now save you.” What is the true likeness.” What is the true likeness? That Jesus saves. As the ark saved now, being baptized in the waters of the flood, Jesus saves, being baptized unto death, and it is our identification with him (by our faith) that saves us. It is a picture, a likeness. It even says it is.
“Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh. It does not refer to the removal of physical defilement. Physical water (such as baptism) is able to clean physical dirt. That is the function of water. Water cleans dirt. This is not speaking of water baptism. The Jews were familiar with ritual washings which did provide a sort of external cleansing. Peter says it is not this type of cleansing.
Water, of any kind, including baptismal water, cannot provide a clear conscience toward God. Only a personal relationship with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection can do that.
How can one have a righteous standing before God? The answer is exactly what Peter wrote. It is the baptism of which Peter has been speaking—Christ’s baptism unto death at Calvary and one’s personal acceptance of that work. By Christ’s death the sin question was settled once for all.
“Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” We know that God is satisfied with the atoning work of Christ because Christ arose from the dead. A clear conscience is inseparably linked with the resurrection of Jesus Christ: they stand or fall together. If Christ had not risen we could never be sure that our sins had been put away.
My only claim for a good conscience is base on the death burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. The order is as follows:
1. Christ was baptized unto death for me at Calvary.
2. When I trust Him as Lord and Saviour, I am spiritually united with Him in His death, burial and resurrection.
3. Through knowledge that He has risen, my request for a clear conscience is answered.
4. In water baptism, I give visible expression to the spiritual deliverance I have already experienced.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
--What has that got to with the price of tea in China, or with baptism? The subject is “born again,” and not once in the entire chapter is baptism mention. Water means water, not necessarily baptism. Don’t read into Scripture that which is not there.
Colossians 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
--Read the context. Buried with Christ. What was buried with Christ? Our old life was buried with Christ. Our new life with Christ is what rose again. It is symbolic.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.
--Same as above. When a person is baptized into Christ (symbolically) he becomes dead to his old life of sin, and puts on a new life in Christ. The waters of baptism do nothing but get you wet.
Baptism does not save, has no part in salvation. Baptismal regeneration is a heresy that takes away from the atoning work of Christ on the cross of Calvary.
DHK