The Close of the Canon Holy Scripture.

[JesusFan]

Perhaps these amazing miracles are still happening today without fanfare or publicity. Many wonders are being wrought in Africa, Islamic nations, South America.

The incredible miracles in the first century were in the context of amplified faith due to the recent ministry of Jesus who was healing entire towns and vast multitudes of sick, demon possessed, and disabled, never turning away anyone, never saying “if it be God’s will, be healed”.

Or it could be that God only works in those mentioned areas in more supernatural ways in order to get the Lord jesus and the Gospel confirmed and started off, and then he backs off as then will be norm of biblical preaching and teaching

 

[JesusFan]

There really is a difference between God healing people in answer to prayer and lining up cripples so that an Apostles shadow can fall across them and heal them.

Spiritual Gifts are given to the CHURCH for the BODY as the Holy Spirit chooses and the body has NEED.

Always would ask why oral Roberts medical center had same percentage of cancers and deaths as any other hospital area?

 

[atpollard]

In today’s world of tech, is there any proof of Christians going around actually healing people?
Or are these charismatic stories that draw more monetary gifts from gullible people with means?

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Yes, there are miracles.

The problem with PROOF is that for 40 days even Jesus walking around post crucifixion was not sufficient proof ... so what could possibly convince a heart determined to not-believe today?

I know a small Pentecostal Church, where you and I would criticize their "gift of tongues" as not agreeing with scripture where either a man came back from the dead, or a Doctor, an ER Nurse, a Hospice Nurse and two EMTs all got it wrong when they pronounced him dead during the service.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

 

[Ascetic X]

Or it could be that God only works in those mentioned areas in more supernatural ways in order to get the Lord jesus and the Gospel confirmed and started off, and then he backs off as then will be norm of biblical preaching and teaching

Jesus did not back off. His teaching was very much confirmed during His ministry, but He kept healing people.

God does not use healing and miracles as temporary tools just to establish or confirm the gospel. He uses them to alleviate human suffering because God is love.

 

[Ascetic X]

In today’s world of tech, is there any proof of Christians going around actually healing people?
Or are these charismatic stories that draw more monetary gifts from gullible people with means?

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I do not lose my faith in healing if fake healers are scamming gullible people. This does not negate the scriptures.

I personally do not need proof that Christians are healing people. I base my faith on the promises of God.

I am dismayed by pastors who preach against divine healing because they do not have enough faith in it to minister it to suffering people.


2 Timothy 2:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


James 5

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[Ben1445]

Yes, there are miracles.

The problem with PROOF is that for 40 days even Jesus walking around post crucifixion was not sufficient proof ... so what could possibly convince a heart determined to not-believe today?

I know a small Pentecostal Church, where you and I would criticize their "gift of tongues" as not agreeing with scripture where either a man came back from the dead, or a Doctor, an ER Nurse, a Hospice Nurse and two EMTs all got it wrong when they pronounced him dead during the service.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

I don’t know. It should not be that hard to substantiate a man blind from birth being made to see after 30 years.
My biggest red flag is that the story always comes before the offering plate.

 

[Ben1445]

I don’t know. It should not be that hard to substantiate a man blind from birth being made to see after 30 years.
My biggest red flag is that the story always comes before the offering plate.

And for this I have an idea. Ask Joel Osteen for money. He can afford to give it away without any hesitation.

 

[atpollard]

I don’t know. It should not be that hard to substantiate a man blind from birth being made to see after 30 years.
My biggest red flag is that the story always comes before the offering plate.

Honestly, how many churches have you been in where a man born blind could walk in and there would be any expectation that he would be made to see? Most churches that I have attended (spanning perhaps 10 different denominations) would have lovingly welcomed him and helped guide him to a seat where he would hear a wonderful sermon about what God can do. When it comes to God actually performing miracles, even the churches that believe in them tend to ”walk” like cessationists.

But maybe that’s just my experience and you attend churches full of people who are far more Spiritual.

(Isn’t there some scripture about ‘have not because you ask not’?)

 

[Ben1445]

Honestly, how many churches have you been in where a man born blind could walk in and there would be any expectation that he would be made to see? Most churches that I have attended (spanning perhaps 10 different denominations) would have lovingly welcomed him and helped guide him to a seat where he would hear a wonderful sermon about what God can do.

I’m right there with you.

When it comes to God actually performing miracles, even the churches that believe in them tend to ”walk” like cessationists.

Especially since signs are for those in unbelief.

But maybe that’s just my experience and you attend churches full of people who are far more Spiritual.

I’m not sure you understood what I meant. I thought it was clear that I was being the skeptic. I was just saying that I haven’t seen the healings that people talk about. I have only seen the part that looks like MMA in church. That is not what healing looks like. People flying through the air onto their backs looks like a recipe for stitches. I don’t know where anyone else is on this but you don’t need stitches if you’re healed. And if you’re being healed, why do you need someone to catch you when you fall? You shouldn’t feel it when you get back up.

(Isn’t there some scripture about ‘have not because you ask not’?)

Paul asked three times.

 

[JesusFan]

Yes, there are miracles.

The problem with PROOF is that for 40 days even Jesus walking around post crucifixion was not sufficient proof ... so what could possibly convince a heart determined to not-believe today?

I know a small Pentecostal Church, where you and I would criticize their "gift of tongues" as not agreeing with scripture where either a man came back from the dead, or a Doctor, an ER Nurse, a Hospice Nurse and two EMTs all got it wrong when they pronounced him dead during the service.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

if that indeed happened, it was God Himself, not a faith healer

 

[JesusFan]

Jesus did not back off. His teaching was very much confirmed during His ministry, but He kept healing people.

God does not use healing and miracles as temporary tools just to establish or confirm the gospel. He uses them to alleviate human suffering because God is love.

Except that healing power was being lost by even Apostle paul near end of his days, and writer of Hebrews stated in past tense healings and miracles

 

[JesusFan]

I do not lose my faith in healing if fake healers are scamming gullible people. This does not negate the scriptures.

I personally do not need proof that Christians are healing people. I base my faith on the promises of God.

I am dismayed by pastors who preach against divine healing because they do not have enough faith in it to minister it to suffering people.


2 Timothy 2:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


James 5

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

God heals, His choice to use medicine, surgery, divine healing , physical death, no faith healers today

 

[JesusFan]

Honestly, how many churches have you been in where a man born blind could walk in and there would be any expectation that he would be made to see? Most churches that I have attended (spanning perhaps 10 different denominations) would have lovingly welcomed him and helped guide him to a seat where he would hear a wonderful sermon about what God can do. When it comes to God actually performing miracles, even the churches that believe in them tend to ”walk” like cessationists.

But maybe that’s just my experience and you attend churches full of people who are far more Spiritual.

(Isn’t there some scripture about ‘have not because you ask not’?)

its not lack of faith, its that God uses majority of tim"'conventual means" to heal

 

[Ascetic X]

Except that healing power was being lost by even Apostle paul near end of his days, and writer of Hebrews stated in past tense healings and miracles

Paul seems to have been doing plenty of healings in the last chapter of Acts. I do not know where your insight into “near the end of his days” comes from, but you do not get it from the Bible.

Acts 28:8,9

And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.

9 So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed.

 

[JesusFan]

Paul seems to have been doing plenty of healings in the last chapter of Acts. I do not know where your insight into “near the end of his days” comes from, but you do not get it from the Bible.

Acts 28:8,9

And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.

9 So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed.

Apostolic gifts ended being granted when last Apostle of the Lord Jesus passed away

 

[Ascetic X]

Apostolic gifts ended being granted when last Apostle of the Lord Jesus passed away

Your bleak and erroneous opinion is not supported by scripture, writings of early church theologians, or missionary reports.

 

[Ascetic X]

Early Christianity (100 - 500)

• Justin Martyr (d.165) in his Dialogue with Trypho comments, 'For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time.'
• Irenaeus (d.202) was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book Against Heresies, Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual". "Those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe [in Christ], and join themselves to the Church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come: they see visions, and utter prophetic expressions. Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole. Yea, moreover, as I have said, the dead even have been raised up, and remained among us for many years…. The name of our Lord Jesus Christ even now confers benefits [upon men], and cures thoroughly and effectively all who anywhere believe on Him".
• Origen (AD 185–253). He professed to have been an eye-witness to many instances of exorcism, healing, and prophecy.
• Augustine (d.430) – Augustine commented in chapters 8 and 9 of Book XXII of his City of God, written circa AD 415, Augustine noted that miracles in his day were not as spectacular or as those at the dawn of Christianity, but that they continued to take place.

 

[atpollard]

if that indeed happened, it was God Himself, not a faith healer

Yes, indeed.

It did happen and there was NO HEALER AT ALL.
There was a man that slumped down in a chair. There was a Doctor and two Nurses that took him out of the service in a wheelchair and discovered he had died. There was a congregation that thought he was sick and began praying fervently for the man. There was an ambulance that arrived from 911 with Paramedics that confirmed he was dead.

There were medical professionals filling out paperwork deciding where to transport the body, a church still praying for the "sick" and a dead man that sat up and refused to be transported so he could finish church service.

No "show", no "snake oil", no "pass the plate" ... just the Church being the Church and God being God.
Nobody felt a need to tell any reporters. Those that were there knew and that was enough.

 

[JesusFan]

Yes, indeed.

It did happen and there was NO HEALER AT ALL.
There was a man that slumped down in a chair. There was a Doctor and two Nurses that took him out of the service in a wheelchair and discovered he had died. There was a congregation that thought he was sick and began praying fervently for the man. There was an ambulance that arrived from 911 with Paramedics that confirmed he was dead.

There were medical professionals filling out paperwork deciding where to transport the body, a church still praying for the "sick" and a dead man that sat up and refused to be transported so he could finish church service.

No "show", no "snake oil", no "pass the plate" ... just the Church being the Church and God being God.
Nobody felt a need to tell any reporters. Those that were there knew and that was enough.

No faith healer, but God healing

 

[JesusFan]

Your bleak and erroneous opinion is not supported by scripture, writings of early church theologians, or missionary reports.

But view held by majority of reformed and Baptists though , and has been the dominant viewpoint since Reformation