Well let's not wave the red flag just yet.
I'll give you something to think about tomorrow when I have time to get in it and refresh my memory.
Like I said, it's been a long time since I've been over and studied the creation.
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The creation: origins
- Thread starter easternstar
- Start date
Well let's not wave the red flag just yet.
I'll give you something to think about tomorrow when I have time to get in it and refresh my memory.
Like I said, it's been a long time since I've been over and studied the creation.
But something that wasn't taught until the 1700's, not any OT saint, NT saint, none of the ECF's, I find that teaching on very shaky ground.
Right now ol' Charlie needs to lay his down for a while.
All of it's shaky ground any way you go. That's the fun in digging in it, or in my case used to dig in it.
You're sounding like a Calvinist, stop that, lol, and let's look at it tomorrow.
I'll give it a read and test it against the backdrop of scripture.
@SovereignGrace
Ok, here it is, but remember these are not facts, they are the foundation of the Gap Theory.
We can all breathe easy knowing it's only a theory.
In Gen. 1:1 it is believed that God created the earth and heaven, the heaven with the stars, sun, ect. millions of years ago and somewhere during that time Satan and the angels that followed him rebelled against God and there was a war in heaven.
The reason Gen. 1:2 says the earth was void and without form. It's believed that Gen. 1:3 is not the beginning of the original creation, that taking place in Gen. 1:1, But Gen. 1:3 is the beginning of a recreation of damage from the war.
In Gen. 1:1 it say God created, but in vs 7 it says God made. Let me show you the difference in "created" and "made."
Created is (Bara) it refers to something coming into existence from nothing, as God speaking the creation into existence from nothing.
Made is (Asah) it refers to something being fashioned or fabricated from and existing material.
In Gen. 1:1 God created everything from nothing, In Gen. 1:7 He is making a firmament from existing materials, like in the leftovers from from the war at Satan's rebellion.
Again in vs. 16 God is making 2 great lights from existing material, not a creation as in Gen. 1:1 where He created from nothing.
Next we come to life, the living creatures on this earth. In vs 21 God is now creating again, great whales and all the creatures in the waters (the seas).
If the Gap Theory is correct, when the war with Satan and his angels was over, all life on earth is believed to have been killed according to the condition described in Gen. 1:2. So the great whales and the creatures of sea we gone and God had to create them again.
Remember that the whales and sea life were created by being spoken into existence, they are now gone and must created again.
Now we come to the beasts of the earth, all the animals in vs24, God made this time from the dust of the earth (Asah/existing materials) as with man, Gen. 2:19.
Now we come to man, here we have man both "made" Gen. 1:26 and "created" Gen. 1:27. So God made man from the dust of the earth (exsisting materials) but man was also the only creature made in the image of God and created that way.
So this is the foundation of the Gap Theory with a gap between the original creation in Gen. 1:1 and the recreation that begins in Gen. 1:3.
So I'll stop here and continue later. Remember I told you last night of another recap of the creation? I will explain that when I can get back with it later today.
Here's my problem with the Gap Theory. And as a Christian and a science teacher for many years, I try not to "guess".
It teaches that there was billions of years of a "gap" between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Life and death and life and death of endless people and animals for billions of years because Satan fell and brought evil into the world. Then, supposedly, Satan caused a world-wide flood [Lucifer's Flood] and the earth BECAME formless and void because of the devil and God had to start over.
Three quick problems here -
[1] The Bible says in Romans 5 that sin entered the world through one man, Adam. Not the devil. And death came into the world only AFTER that. The Gap Theory makes Romans 5 and Genesis 3 a lie.
[2] Those who embrace the Gap Theory claim that Genesis 1:2 is saying "and the earth BECAME formless and void." That's not what the Hebrew says nor the very first translation that we know of, the Septuagint, Greek, says.
Genesis 1:2 says in both the original and the first translation that the earth WAS formless and void, not became or was becoming. It's the same as John 1, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God". Jesus, the Word, did not BECOME God later. Jesus WAS God from the beginning. Same grammar.
Genesis 1:2 is a paranthetical statement that shows what the earth looked like when God "created the heavens and the earth" in Genesis 1:1. Why did the earth look that way? Because God had not brought light or life to the earth yet. In other words, the earth was not inhabitable yet, not until God brought his "light" [not the sun and moon] and prepared it.
[3]. Besides, Exodus 20:11 says, "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
To embrace the Gap Theory, one must reject sections of the Bible.
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Ok, well the Gap Theory is not for you.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
This puts everything created on day four earlier than the first day of creation.
Right out of the gate it denies the creation narrative given in Genesis 1.
As mentioned, Satan was cast out of heaven. So was he in heaven or on the earth where the war happened?
According to any theory that I have heard like this, Satan was in charge of the earth. Would he not have been kicked out of his place on the earth if that was his place.
When Adam sinned he was on the earth in the garden. He didn’t get kicked out of heaven, he was kicked out of the garden immediately and the earth by death.
None of this in regard to Satan makes any sense to me.
But God can also create matter in the state of not being shaped and empty.
If there is any gap it is only a gap between God made space and matter, and did something with space and matter.
I recognize that on day one, the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters that were already there. That is not an indication of a prior creation or civilization.
There is plenty of room to say that the beginning was part of the first day.
I hear most often that a thousand years is like a day to the Lord, but we must also remember that our day is also as a thousand years to God also. That means in our first earth day, God had at minimum, a literal thousand years to sort out the angels in heaven.
To compare spiritual matters with physical matters is confusion.
We were given sun moon and stars on the fourth day for the purpose of keeping time in the physical realm. God is not bound by this. Angels were present before the foundation of the world. They rejoiced when the foundations were laid. Satan could have fallen before God created physical things. Where would he have gone? It doesn’t need to be a physical universe. Satan is not by nature a physical being.
Yea, I kinda got a feeling it's not going to make any sense to some.
But it will to others.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Do you have any answers for these objections?
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
It isn’t a new topic to me. I have objections to it because it is not compatible with the Gen. 1 narrative logically or in any allowable manner once the Satan portion of the narrative is introduced.
I find no biblical support for the great detail that I have heard in regard to Satans supposed dominance of any prior creation.
The Gap Theory is saying that Satan's rebellion took place at some point in infinity past, when we don't know, but long before the recorded recreation beginning in Gen. 1:3, but after the original creation in Gen. 1.
There is a long gap between the 2, the reason it's called the Gap Theory.
It can be very confusing if you're not very familiar with it. It just takes some time of kicking it around a bit and placing everything, if you have the patience for it.
I have been familiar with the Gap Theory for decades. I'm not confused about what it says at all. How do you refute what I said in post #27? You seemed to just ignore what I said.
I'm not arguing a theory, just trying to explain it.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks of a proposed theory, but if it were a doctrine in Scripture that matters, that is a different story.
Excellent question, thanks. I fall into the #4 something else category.
In Sunday school, I was taught that God created everything in six literal 24 hour days.
Once I began to study the issue, I thought the "Day-age" theory might best explain Genesis 1. But it did not stand up in my understanding after study.
Finally, I settled on Job 38, and accepted the "I do not know" understanding of Genesis 1. But I do believe the first human, Adam was created less than 7000 years ago, because that is a reasonable time period for all the generations from Adam to Jesus, plus about 2000 years from Jesus to now.
37818
Well-Known Member
4. Something else
A literal Biblical creation account. An old universe.
- The biblical time clock did not begin ticking until God spoke, giving purpose to his creation.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I get the theory. I don’t get where it comes from. I don’t see any evidence for it. Just a lot of speculation.