The Danger of the Denial of the Pre-Trib Translation (Rapture) of the Church of Jesus Christ

[JD731]

Many on this board would go on record denying the truth of the gathering of the church together from heaven (those who have died physically) and from earth (those who are alive when it happens) at her predestined glorification when we will all receive our promised glorified body like unto our Lord's glorious body at the exact same time, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (the feast of trumpets).

Passover
Unleavened Bread
First-fruits

Weeks - (Pentecost)

Trumpets
Day of Atonement
Tabernacles

These are feasts of Israel but time has not passed for national Israel because Israel has been dead and buried in the nations of the world for the last 2 of God's 1000 year days, beginning in 70 AD. We are told in Hosea 6:2 that she will be resurrected from the dead after two days, which, of course, will be on the third day, very early on it.

The meaning of death in scripture is separation and that is all it means. Israel was separated from her land, meaning she was separated from her covenants with God. God has built his church during the time Israel has been dead and in this way the covenant people, though separated from her land and national promises , have not been rejected without mercy of God. He sent the gospel of Jesus Christ into all the world where they had been driven and God made it possible for every one of them to be saved one at a time and included in his church, the body of Christ, the heavenly bride of Christ.

This is a time of marvelous grace both for Abraham's seed and all gentiles because the invitation for God's salvation is open to both. Jesus Christ did not just die for Israel, he died for all people everywhere and during this special time the invitation is open in these words, 'whosoever will, let him come and take of the water of life freely."

But the promises God made to Abraham and David are immutable promises and they cannot and will not fail. Israel is God's earthy people for eternity and the saved nations will be blessed on the earth through them.

So, with this is mind we ought to talk about the dangers of religious systems that teach a hopeless message that does not involve these truths. What will be the results and why should we fear being decieved members of these systems?

Listen folks. The scriptures says the church, with both Jews and gentiles, is the wisdom of God on display for the angelic hosts to witness.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh (Israelites), and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them (into the nations) be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead (national resurrection)?

The time of the translation of the church is very close now. Those in the world who have heard the gospel and did not get saved when they had opportunity will not have another opportunity and will be damned. God himself will send them strong delusion that they will believe the lie of the man of sin. This is the danger.

Let's talk about this.

 

[atpollard]

Many on this board would go on record denying the truth of the gathering of the church together from heaven (those who have died physically) and from earth (those who are alive when it happens) at her predestined glorification when we will all receive our promised glorified body like unto our Lord's glorious body at the exact same time, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (the feast of trumpets).

I am just skeptical that it comes before a Tribulation, a 1000 year literal kingdom and a second return for an epic battle followed by the destruction of everything.

It is the "Pre-Trib" more than the "Rapture" that I am concerned that people may not be handling scripture correctly. [Not that I care enough to even "strain" fellowship over the issue (let alone break fellowship)]

I am a "pan-Tribulationist" ... I believe that it will all "pan out in the end."

 

[37818]

Let's talk about this.

According to 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 the understood "rapture" cannot take place until after the resurrection of the saints who are "asleep."

 

[KenH]

"If we can demonstrate and prove that the Galatian epistle establishes beyond all cavil that the Church is one — a unity — in Old Testament and New Testament, and that therefore the N. T. Church is the final form of “Israel,” the inheritor of all the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Kingdom which Messiah came to establish and did in fact establish, our task will have been completed and our readers must do the rest. It is our deliberate contention that this is the very position established in the next chapter (the 4th) of our Galatian epistle — established with such force that it can only be avoided by a blindness or an ignorance culpable in its nature.

Chapter four contains Paul’s final argument, proving these two things: (1) That the work of “adoption” performed in the hearts of all true believers demonstrates that they are the legitimate successors of the Israelitish Church of the O.T. (2) He reinforces this by an allegory built upon Abraham’s history, showing that the natural Jew is not Israel at all but Ishmael: and that the Church of Jew and Gentile believers is the true and only and exclusive Israel of God. This being so, the promises to Israel in the O.T. prophecies are to be spiritually understood even when they speak apparently of literal and material restoration of “Israel and Judah.” This is the key — the only key, to prophetical interpretation. We proceed therefore: Galatians 4:1 — “Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant though he be Lord of all.” Paul is saying that in O.T. times the true Church, the true people of God, were in a state of minority. Not having “come of age,” they were treated as a child in a rich man’s household, the heir to all the Father’s estates and privileges but not yet at that age when that inheritance could properly be bestowed. Therefore the child-heir finds himself fenced about with restrictions and officers who regulate his life so that he has no liberty to enjoy his privileges “the time appointed of the Father.” This is expressed by Paul in the words, “But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father” (verse 2). The tutors and governors of the Church in the O.T. were the regulations of the Mosaic code. Paul deliberately transfers the figure of the child-heir to the Church in her O.T. minority in these words — “Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements (margin, rudiments) of the world” (verse 3). The childhood of the Church was in Israelitish form under the O.T. The “bondage” was the subjection of the people of God to those earthly “rudiments” of visible temple, sacrifices, circumcision, and all other legal observances “in the flesh” which constituted the preparatory condition of the people of God before the coming of Christ. Of that glorious event when the Church obtained her release and passed from under the law to the full liberty of Gospel faith, Paul now speaks — “But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons” (verses 4-5). “The fullness of times” means the times of prophetical fulfillment of all the promises and purposes of God in redemption. That Paul should call the Gospel times “the fullness of time” means that the Gospel age is the age of fulfillment of all things which God spake by His holy prophets since the world began (Luke 1:70)."

- excerpt from article, "Moses or Christ?" by Charles D. Alexander; rest of article at https://cloud.sermonaudio.com/media/pdf/high/3211119311.p

 

[JD731]

According to 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 the understood "rapture" cannot take place until after the resurrection of the saints who are "asleep."

You should take another look at that, first from the standpoit of the unity of the body. It would not make much sense if the purpose of raising the body up was to gather it together and then by the very act of raising it, to have a divided body.

Second, the way to look at that return of Christ with the souls of those who have died already and he is bringing with him is to watch the order of the bodily resurrection. The bodies of those with Christ come out of the ground and the change of the bodies of those yet living happens next. So follow the logic.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

What he means is they who are yet alive when Jesus comes will not preceed those who come with Christ "in the air with him."

So, here is the manner in which this bodily change will take place;

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The pont is those who are alive on the earth will not have a head start on those who must come out of the graves. The operative word in verse 17 is the word "together."

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I am going to quote this verse without the operative words and you can then see how it would have been written if my treatment of this passage is not correct.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The starting place of going up is the surface of the earth in a new body.

Two other passages deals with this same identical incident.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (those who come with Jesus), and we shall be changed (we who are alive when he comes)

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

But, thanks for the input. It means we are all thinking.

 

[37818]

You should take another look at that, first from the standpoit of the unity of the body. It would not make much sense if the purpose of raising the body up was to gather it together and then by the very act of raising it, to have a divided body.

Second, the way to look at that return of Christ with the souls of those who have died already and he is bringing with him is to watch the order of the bodily resurrection. The bodies of those with Christ come out of the ground and the change of the bodies of those yet living happens next. So follow the logic.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

What he means is they who are yet alive when Jesus comes will not preceed those who come with Christ "in the air with him."

So, here is the manner in which this bodily change will take place;

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The pont is those who are alive on the earth will not have a head start on those who must come out of the graves. The operative word in verse 17 is the word "together."

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I am going to quote this verse without the operative words and you can then see how it would have been written if my treatment of this passage is not correct.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The starting place of going up is the surface of the earth in a new body.

Two other passages deals with this same identical incident.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (those who come with Jesus), and we shall be changed (we who are alive when he comes)

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

But, thanks for the input. It means we are all thinking.

You are not making any sense.

There can be only the.one second appearing.
Hebrews 9:28, . . . unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There can be only the one first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, . . .

 

[JD731]

You are not making any sense.

There can be only the.one second appearing.
Hebrews 9:28, . . . unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There can be only the one first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, . . .

If what you say is true and the resurrection is not one resurrection in three parts, yet one resurrection, three in one and one in three, it would definitely be a departure from one of the most compelling ways of God of confirming his truths. This is especially true in his church and this threefold unity is prevalent in any way it is viewed. Jew, gentile and Spirit is the threefold unity of the body of Christ, yet in this body they are one. Christ the head of the church, the body of redeemed souls, and the Spirit the life giver of the body. Three in one and one in three. The members of the body a trinity, body, soul, and Spirit of God. The trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit indwelling the redeemed

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;

God has given this dispensation something he has given no other in history. He has given us scripture and an indwelling teacher and he has made it possible for us to know his thoughts.....but there is an adversary and he has a bevy of false teachers. They will teach you that you cannot believe his words, nor know his ways, or understand his will. Some of you will believe them.

Here is what is possible now.

Col 1:9 ¶ For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

I can only say WOW! Can this really be realized now? What a savior!

 

[37818]

Romans 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Colossians 1:18, And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Revelation 1:5, . . . the first begotten of the dead, . . .

 

[JD731]

Romans 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Colossians 1:18, And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Revelation 1:5, . . . the first begotten of the dead, . . .

I am sure you know what point of relevance you would like to make but I am sure I don't.

You are like a man who winks in the dark. You know what you are doing but no one else does.

 

[JD731]

All the firstborn sons in the scriptures were metaphors for the son born after the flesh and stands in need of a second birth. The second born son is a metaphor for the spiritual man. The first birth is physical. the second birth is spiritual.

Cain/ Abel
Japheth/Shem
Ishmael/ Isaac
Esau/Jacob
Israel/Judah
the elder son/The prodigal
Israel/Jesus (Ex 4:22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

This is just a few.. Paul said, "in me, that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing." God can't use you.

But Jesus Christ , though he is the second son from the womb of a woman to fulfill the typology, he is the FIRSTBORN SON FROM THE DEAD. There would not be a new birth for anyone unless he had a new birth FIRST. None of you men will believe this though all saved men have a new birth from the dead. If you have not the Spirit ye are none of his.

You will need further proof:

Ps 2:7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

What day? I will underline the day so you can't miss it unless your theological system demands you miss it.

Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings (the gospel), how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Why would anyone purposefully refuse to believe this?

 

[percho]

I am just skeptical that it comes before a Tribulation, a 1000 year literal kingdom and a second return for an epic battle followed by the destruction of everything.

It is the "Pre-Trib" more than the "Rapture" that I am concerned that people may not be handling scripture correctly. [Not that I care enough to even "strain" fellowship over the issue (let alone break fellowship)]

I am a "pan-Tribulationist" ... I believe that it will all "pan out in the end."

The coming of the Lord; 1 Thes 4:15,16; I believe to be post tribulation pre mill., pre one thousand year reign.

Question for all.

for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power -- for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet -- the last enemy is done away -- [the*] death; ------------* it is in the Greek, weather it means anything or not, it is there.

This whole passage is about being made alive. Made alive out of what? Is it not the death? And an order to being made alive.

To date Christ and Christ alone has been made alive out of the death, to die no more and no more to return to corruption.
Per above the next group to experience the same are those who are Christ in his presence.
Then it speaks of the end of being alive out of the death which is stated to take place when a kingdom is to be delivered up to God the Father but before taking place the death must be done away, destroyed, abolished or whatever, which means the rest of the dead must be made alive out of, the death.

This aligns perfectly with Rev 20 states however Rev 20 tells how the above kingdom endures on the earth.

IMHO

Yes or No?

 

[percho]

All the firstborn sons in the scriptures were metaphors for the son born after the flesh and stands in need of a second birth. The second born son is a metaphor for the spiritual man. The first birth is physical. the second birth is spiritual.

Cain/ Abel
Japheth/Shem
Ishmael/ Isaac
Esau/Jacob
Israel/Judah
the elder son/The prodigal
Israel/Jesus (Ex 4:22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

This is just a few.. Paul said, "in me, that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing." God can't use you.

But Jesus Christ , though he is the second son from the womb of a woman to fulfill the typology, he is the FIRSTBORN SON FROM THE DEAD. There would not be a new birth for anyone unless he had a new birth FIRST. None of you men will believe this though all saved men have a new birth from the dead. If you have not the Spirit ye are none of his.

You will need further proof:

Ps 2:7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

What day? I will underline the day so you can't miss it unless your theological system demands you miss it.

Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings (the gospel), how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Why would anyone purposefully refuse to believe this?

Amen

 

[37818]

@JD731,
1 Corinthians 15:23, . . . every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Colossians 1:15, . . . Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: . . .

Colossians 1:18, . . . who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; . . .

1 John 3:2, . . . we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; . . .

Has to do with the resurrection and the rapture.

 

[JD731]

@JD731,
1 Corinthians 15:23, . . . every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Colossians 1:15, . . . Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: . . .

Colossians 1:18, . . . who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; . . .

1 John 3:2, . . . we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; . . .

Has to do with the resurrection and the rapture.

You are a stealth bomber and all you leave is a puff of smoke. What has your comments to do with the Translation of the church of Jesus Christ, his body, when it is glorified and taken to heaven where Jesus Christ presently resides? (John 14:1-6

I am going to leave you with your private thoughts and move on because you make my brain hurt. Thanks though for the challenge.

 

[atpollard]

The first birth is physical. the second birth is spiritual.

Cain/ Abel
Japheth/Shem
Ishmael/ Isaac
Esau/Jacob
Israel/Judah
the elder son/The prodigal
Israel/Jesus (Ex 4:22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Right or wrong in the argument, that is an incredible list that provikes one to stop and think!

Thank you for that.
[I'm still chewing the information over.]

 

[canadyjd]

Just to be clear, @JD731, what exactly is the “danger” of not believing a pre-tribulation rapture?

Could you please state the “danger” in one or two sentences?

Peace to you

 

[JD731]

Right or wrong in the argument, that is an incredible list that provikes one to stop and think!

Thank you for that.
[I'm still chewing the information over.]

There are more, at, I just named a few but God has constants in his word.

Here is another worthy consideration along that vein.

1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Read this following outside your lock box and read it carefully.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It (the body) is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The natural body is first!

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Now, having established the above truths, we can speak of the image of the earthly and the image of the heavenly and what that means in the beginning of the 5th millennium of human history after Jesus Christ, the spiritual man, has risen from the dead as the LIFE GIVING SPIRIT.

You might recall that Adam was created by God and the one point that God made about him and Eve is that he/they were in the image of God, but that was before they sinned. All their offspring were natural with a single birth and they did not have the Spirit.

The fix for Adam and Eve is the Son of God and the church, taken from his sleeping body and presented to him as his wife. That is what this age and this dispensation is all about. There are children. They are called the sons of God and they are in the image of Christ.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Mt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Jesus Christ is the fix for all things that is destroyed by sin and this is the fix Adam and Eve. There is going to be a perfect man and a perfect wife in God's kingdom and this man is going to rule over God's estate and his wife is going to be his helpmeet. That is just the truth.

This is such glorious truth that it is hard to keep from shouting hallelujah and I encourage everyone not to just have religion but to have life through our Lord Jesus Christ. He is forming his church in the earth and will come for us when it is full. There is a marriage suppe of the Lamb that is on his schedule and we will rule and reign with him over the nations.

Danger! Do not let false teachers rob you of the knowledge of God.

 

[37818]

You are a stealth bomber and all you leave is a puff of smoke. What has your comments to do with the Translation of the church of Jesus Christ, his body, when it is glorified and taken to heaven where Jesus Christ presently resides? (John 14:1-6

I am going to leave you with your private thoughts and move on because you make my brain hurt. Thanks though for the challenge.

Your signature "BELIEVE THE WORDS"
I presumed the written word of God.

Luke 4:4, And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Let's talk about this.

^ From your Post #1.

According to 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 the understood "rapture" cannot take place until after the resurrection of the saints who are "asleep."

You are not making any sense.

There can be only the.one second appearing.
Hebrews 9:28, . . . unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There can be only the one first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, . . .

Please specify your difficulty.

 

[JD731]

Just to be clear, @JD731, what exactly is the “danger” of not believing a pre-tribulation rapture?

Could you please state the “danger” in one or two sentences?

Peace to you

To deny the church and the special blessings, including Christ coming for it and the subsequent marriage, negatively affects several OT prophetic themes.

 

[JD731]

Your signature "BELIEVE THE WORDS"
I presumed the written word of God.

Luke 4:4, And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


^ From your Post #1.




Please specify your difficulty.

I do believe the words. I believe all the scriptures that say the church of Jesus Christ is a new creaure with it's beginning at the resurrection of Jesus Christ as we are told in many scriptures but succinctly in Co 1:18. That every member of his body enters through a new birth and that when the body is full and complete, Jesus Christ will come for her and there will be a marriage supper of the Lamb. He is not coming to the earth for her, he is coming in the air, and later he is coming back to the earth to rule and reign with his wife. That was the intention of God before sin entered into the world.

Ps 45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.
2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;
11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.
12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.
13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.
14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.
15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.
16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.
17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

Seventeen; the number for joy.