The Doctrine of Election in a Nutshell

[Piper]

Only those that are in Christ are of the elect and you are only in Christ if you believe. So logically you can not be in Christ before creation.

Oh my. Scripture says that we were chosen (aka elect) before the foundation of the world. I guess it disagrees with you.
Ephesians 1 says "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,"

 

[JD731]

I kind of knew where this was going. But you make so many mistakes in your interpretation, I don't have the time nor the energy to refute them. The clearest one is when you say that election happens when the Spirit puts the new believer into the body. That contradicts the entire NT teaching of election.

In other words, you are saying that election is corporate, for all who are in Christ are elect. So to become elect, in your presentation, you must first be a believer. This is the position of Robert Shank, who wrote "Elect in the Son." He is a Church of Christ proponent of corporate election. He also wrote "Life in the son," wherein he attempts to show that you can be a genuine believer who loses his salvation.

Ephesians1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

or ESV
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

I'm not sure if you are making bad exegetical decisions, or just repeating someone's arguments, but it falls apart.

I have said much more and I have quoted the words of those chosen of God to make these things known. We are presented in this epistle with the revelation of a mystery, according to the words of the author. He calls it "the mystery of Christ." He says it was hidden from former ages and he defines the mystery as the purpose of God for this particular age. It is addressed to gentiles and it is an explanation of the workings of God to achieve his purpose. His purpose is to build a house in which, or in whom, he, God, can dwell. It must be a sinless house because God will not dwell where sin is and we have 4000 years of previous history from the fall of man to prove this. God has chosen Christ to be that man in whom he will dwell. He alone has overcome sin and is perfect and is now in a resurrected body that is glorified and can sit in the presence of God in heaven. Jesus Christ could not have done that until after he was resurrected and his body glorified.

When we see the church, the body of Jesus Christ metaphorically, as it is being presented, with a clear physical representation in Christ himself in his earthly ministry. He was the Son of God but with an earthly body that was weak and entirely dependent upon the Spirit of God that dwelt in him to give him power to live without sinning against God.

Now take a look at what God has done for us through the resurrected Christ. He has done exactly for us what God did for him. He gave us his Spirit to dwell in our bodies. This makes us a son of God and a NEW creation. Isn't that what God did for Jesus when he made his body. He was the ONLY begotten son of God in the flesh. He was the only man who had the Spirit of God in him from his conception, and that without measure, according to this;

John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Unlike us, Jesus never had any connection with Adam in his body. His body was never dead before the cross.

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

One must think in these terms. The body of Christ is formed in this age after his resurrection. Those who are put into the body are those to whom he has given the Spirit of Christ. The presence of the Spirit in the body is the agency of the quickening. He is the power over sin. So then, a person receives the Spirit at the moment he believes the gospel of Christ. This is identified in scripture as passing from death to life, or as salvation from the penalty of our sins, which is eternal death, separation from God, in the lake of fire. At the same time the Spirit baptizes, or immerses us into the body of Christ as a functioning member in that body according to his own discretion and gifts us in that capacity.

1 Cor 12: 1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(Now you Calvinist's are ignorant)


In 1 Cor 12, we have the workings of each member of the Godhead in relation to forming this body. The first 13 verses are dealing with the Spirit's role in it's formation and in it's performance. Look at the 3 parts;

(The Spirit)
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
(The Lord Jesus)
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
(God the Father)
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

There is always a trinitarian signature on all God's revelations because God is one and functionally he is three.

If one does not allow this truth to govern their thinking they will not begin to understand God and his great truths.

I have a lot to say on this subject of election and how God deals with it in two different epistles, one written in AD 58, and the other written in AD 60, the first in relation to the remnant of Israel and the second to the gentiles. I might add right here that God would not make this mystery known before there was some history because it could not be understood without it. When the history revealed what was happening, then it could be explained. None of this was possible under the old covenant but there had to be a new testament for this to take place. When God said that he ordained this before the foundation of the world he meant that his purpose was fixed and would be accomplished in and through Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for humanity. The spin you guys put on his work of redemption is scary when one considers the end of such a doctrine.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The history that unfolded in the first century showing Israel was preached to first, then afterwards the gentiles were added as a target of God's gift of salvation ten years later. Both Romans, with the Jews, and then the world with the gentiles were added. Look:

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Words mean things. Follow the logic. The Jews had the firstfruits of the Spirit. Look at Ephesians where gentiles are under consideration.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Read the whole context. Then notice this "we" and "ye" verses;

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
___________

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

We and ye are Jews and gentiles and it is what this letter is about. It reveals the mystery of Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

jd731

God the Father raised him from the dead and he lives today and gives his life to all who will believe the Father's testimony of him. Look at this.

So are you saying believing is a condition to benefit from Gods election ? Or is Believing a benefit from being elected by the Father ?

 

[AustinC]

I have said much more and I have quoted the words of those chosen of God to make these things known. We are presented in this epistle with the revelation of a mystery, according to the words of the author. He calls it "the mystery of Christ." He says it was hidden from former ages and he defines the mystery as the purpose of God for this particular age. It is addressed to gentiles and it is an explanation of the workings of God to achieve his purpose. His purpose is to build a house in which, or in whom, he, God, can dwell. It must be a sinless house because God will not dwell where sin is and we have 4000 years of previous history from the fall of man to prove this. God has chosen Christ to be that man in whom he will dwell. He alone has overcome sin and is perfect and is now in a resurrected body that is glorified and can sit in the presence of God in heaven. Jesus Christ could not have done that until after he was resurrected and his body glorified.

When we see the church, the body of Jesus Christ metaphorically, as it is being presented, with a clear physical representation in Christ himself in his earthly ministry. He was the Son of God but with an earthly body that was weak and entirely dependent upon the Spirit of God that dwelt in him to give him power to live without sinning against God.

Now take a look at what God has done for us through the resurrected Christ. He has done exactly for us what God did for him. He gave us his Spirit to dwell in our bodies. This makes us a son of God and a NEW creation. Isn't that what God did for Jesus when he made his body. He was the ONLY begotten son of God in the flesh. He was the only man who had the Spirit of God in him from his conception, and that without measure, according to this;

John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Unlike us, Jesus never had any connection with Adam in his body. His body was never dead before the cross.

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

One must think in these terms. The body of Christ is formed in this age after his resurrection. Those who are put into the body are those to whom he has given the Spirit of Christ. The presence of the Spirit in the body is the agency of the quickening. He is the power over sin. So then, a person receives the Spirit at the moment he believes the gospel of Christ. This is identified in scripture as passing from death to life, or as salvation from the penalty of our sins, which is eternal death, separation from God, in the lake of fire. At the same time the Spirit baptizes, or immerses us into the body of Christ as a functioning member in that body according to his own discretion and gifts us in that capacity.

1 Cor 12: 1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(Now you Calvinist's are ignorant)


In 1 Cor 12, we have the workings of each member of the Godhead in relation to forming this body. The first 13 verses are dealing with the Spirit's role in it's formation and in it's performance. Look at the 3 parts;

(The Spirit)
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
(The Lord Jesus)
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
(God the Father)
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

There is always a trinitarian signature on all God's revelations because God is one and functionally he is three.

If one does not allow this truth to govern their thinking they will not begin to understand God and his great truths.

I have a lot to say on this subject of election and how God deals with it in two different epistles, one written in AD 58, and the other written in AD 60, the first in relation to the remnant of Israel and the second to the gentiles. I might add right here that God would not make this mystery known before there was some history because it could not be understood without it. When the history revealed what was happening, then it could be explained. None of this was possible under the old covenant but there had to be a new testament for this to take place. When God said that he ordained this before the foundation of the world he meant that his purpose was fixed and would be accomplished in and through Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for humanity. The spin you guys put on his work of redemption is scary when one considers the end of such a doctrine.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The history that unfolded in the first century showing Israel was preached to first, then afterwards the gentiles were added as a target of God's gift of salvation ten years later. Both Romans, with the Jews, and then the world with the gentiles were added. Look:

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Words mean things. Follow the logic. The Jews had the firstfruits of the Spirit. Look at Ephesians where gentiles are under consideration.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Read the whole context. Then notice this "we" and "ye" verses;

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
___________

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

We and ye are Jews and gentiles and it is what this letter is about. It reveals the mystery of Christ.

Wow, you have done a wonderful job of totally mucking up election into something not taught in scripture. You have made it so much more complicated than it is. I can only wonder why you have so drastically muddied the waters.

 

[Silverhair]

Oh my. Scripture says that we were chosen (aka elect) before the foundation of the world. I guess it disagrees with you.
Ephesians 1 says "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,"

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Paul is speaking to the Ephesians and the faithful in Christ. Since we are not Ephesians that only leaves the faithful in Christ. Since we can not be faithful in Christ if 1] we do not exist / not born yet or 2] have not trusted in the Son. How and when do we trust in the Son Ephesians 1:13 is clear and Romans 10:9-10 states again what we have to do before we are saved, are found in Christ..

It is only a man-made theology that has man saved before creation. Trust the bible not calvinism. One is truth the other is error.

 

[Silverhair]

Note, I disregard Van's opinion which is his alone and has no essential biblical support.

Scripture tells us we were chosen/elected before the foundation of the world Scripture tells us that before birth, before we ever do right or wrong, God's choice is already set.

During our lifetime the faith which God has given us is righteous and thus we are justified by the righteous faith of God, which is given to us...individually.

Van's "corporate" theory is his own opinion without any biblical support.

Once again Austin is putting forth his man-made philosophy as if we should trust it rather than the bible. The bible, it would seem, is not Austins final authority.

 

[JD731]

jd731



So are you saying believing is a condition to benefit from Gods election ? Or is Believing a benefit from being elected by the Father ?

God elects his children. That is who God elects. In John chapter 1, verse 11-12, we are told, "he came unto his own (Judah) and his own received him not, but to as many as received him, to them he gave them power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..

There is nothing here about preelection before the foundation of the world. His own did not receive him after it was expected they would. It was not the preselected who received him, but to as many as believed.

Believing is required for the new birth. Why? Because it is from God. It is a birth into the family of God. He does not just indiscriminately give his Spirit to men. They must believe in Jesus. The Spirit of God in the body is the agency of the new birth. He is life as has already in this chapter been pointed out. Look;


Jon 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus Christ is the son of God from his conception. How do I know this? Because all men who have the Spirit of God are sons of God. God elects those whom the Spirit indwells and puts into the body of Christ. The Spirit indwells those who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ died to atone for the sins of the whole world. Whosoever will, let him come and take of the water of life freely. Water in the physical has the same properties as the Spirit in the spiritual. There can be no life without it. It falls from the heaven in such abundance that all living may drink. It falls all over the world. All must drink to live. One must drink of the Spirit only once.

You need to reset because your religion does great harm to the truth.

 

[Silverhair]

jd731



So are you saying believing is a condition to benefit from Gods election ? Or is Believing a benefit from being elected by the Father ?

BF you are reading your calvinism into the comment. No one is elect before they believe.

 

[AustinC]

God elects his children. That is who God elects. In John chapter 1, verse 11-12, we are told, "he came unto his own (Judah) and his own received him not, but to as many as received him, to them he gave them power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..

This passage is referring to the nation of Israel who are the recipients of the Mosaic/Sinai Covenant. Jesus came to his Covenant people and they did not recognize him as the Promised One.

There is nothing here about preelection before the foundation of the world.

Correct, because those verses are not about election in regard to redemption.

His own did not receive him after it was expected they would. It was not the preselected who received him, but to as many as believed

Those born into the Mosaic Covenant are not necessarily the elect. Romans 2 and Romans 9 show you this. Please study the Covenants.

Believing is required for the new birth.

How do dead people believe?
Believing is an effect of God's saving grace, not a requirement in order for God to be gracious
Your soteriology is by works, not by grace.

Why? Because it is from God. It is a birth into the family of God. He does not just indiscriminately give his Spirit to men.

Indeed, God chose these particular men (and women) before the foundation of the world. God never leaves anything to chance.

They must believe in Jesus.

All the elect will believe because God will cause them to Believe.

The Spirit of God in the body is the agency of the new birth. He is life as has already in this chapter been pointed out. Look;

The Spirit of God does indeed quicken the dead whom God elected before the foundation of the world.

Jon 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Yep, dead men don't comprehend the light.

Jesus saves His chosen from slavery to sin.

*Matthew 1:21*
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

Jesus Christ is the son of God from his conception.

Jesus is eternal. He was not conceived He made himself human, shedding his glory to be human so that He would be the atoning sacrifice for the elect.

How do I know this? Because all men who have the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Those whom God has chosen to make alive with Christ.

God elects those whom the Spirit indwells and puts into the body of Christ.

God already elected them before the foundation of the world. Because they are already elect, the saints are given life.

The Spirit indwells those who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Spirit causes those he makes alive to believe and the Spirit indwells them.

You keep emphasizing human works as the cause which effects God. Your teaching is wrong.

Jesus Christ died to atone for the sins of the whole world.

Nope. If he did, the whole world would universally be saved.
Jesus atoned for all the elect who will believe.

Whosoever will, let him come and take of the water of life freely. Water in the physical has the same properties as the Spirit in the spiritual. There can be no life without it. It falls from the heaven in such abundance that all living may drink. It falls all over the world. All must drink to live. One must drink of the Spirit only once.

Here you openly reveal your works salvation teaching. You make human will greater than God's will.
Note that there are billions of people who have never heard of Jesus and his atoning work. You expect them to believe in Him whom they have never heard of. Your works based teaching damns them to hell.

You need to reset because your religion does great harm to the truth.

Your religion is graceless and a version of what Paul called Anathema. You preach salvation by fulfilling your laws.

 

[Silverhair]

Wow, you have done a wonderful job of totally mucking up election into something not taught in scripture. You have made it so much more complicated than it is. I can only wonder why you have so drastically muddied the waters.

Austin what did he miss about election? Those that trust in the Son are part of the elect. No one is elect before creation, that idea is just found in your errant theology.

 

[Silverhair]

This passage is referring to the nation of Israel who are the recipients of the Mosaic/Sinai Covenant. Jesus came to his Covenant people and they did not recognize him as the Promised One.


Correct, because those verses are not about election in regard to redemption.


Those born into the Mosaic Covenant are not necessarily the elect. Romans 2 and Romans 9 show you this. Please study the Covenants.


How do dead people believe?
Believing is an effect of God's saving grace, not a requirement in order for God to be gracious
Your soteriology is by works, not by grace.


Indeed, God chose these particular men (and women) before the foundation of the world. God never leaves anything to chance.


All the elect will believe because God will cause them to Believe.


The Spirit of God does indeed quicken the dead whom God elected before the foundation of the world.



Yep, dead men don't comprehend the light.

Jesus saves His chosen from slavery to sin.

*Matthew 1:21*
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”


Jesus is eternal. He was not conceived He made himself human, shedding his glory to be human so that He would be the atoning sacrifice for the elect.


Those whom God has chosen to make alive with Christ.


God already elected them before the foundation of the world. Because they are already elect, the saints are given life.


The Spirit causes those he makes alive to believe and the Spirit indwells them.

You keep emphasizing human works as the cause which effects God. Your teaching is wrong.


Nope. If he did, the whole world would universally be saved.
Jesus atoned for all the elect who will believe.


Here you openly reveal your works salvation teaching. You make human will greater than God's will.
Note that there are billions of people who have never heard of Jesus and his atoning work. You expect them to believe in Him whom they have never heard of. Your works based teaching damns them to hell.


Your religion is graceless and a version of what Paul called Anathema. You preach salvation by fulfilling your laws.

Austin how can you make such a bollix of scripture? You can take a clear text and twist it into a calvinist pretzel.

 

[Piper]

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Paul is speaking to the Ephesians and the faithful in Christ. Since we are not Ephesians that only leaves the faithful in Christ. Since we can not be faithful in Christ if 1] we do not exist / not born yet or 2] have not trusted in the Son. How and when do we trust in the Son Ephesians 1:13 is clear and Romans 10:9-10 states again what we have to do before we are saved, are found in Christ..

It is only a man-made theology that has man saved before creation. Trust the bible not calvinism. One is truth the other is error.

I never said anyone was saved before creation. I said chosen, elect. That is clear. Do you deny that our being chosen in Him was before creation?

 

[Silverhair]

I never said anyone was saved before creation. I said chosen, elect. That is clear. Do you deny that our being chosen in Him was before creation?

God made the choice that those that trusted in the Son would be elect. You want those that have not even been born yet to be considered elect. Your view is not biblical. Ephesians 1:1-6 is clear.
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

If one is not in the Son through faith he is not elect.

 

[Brightfame52]

God elects his children. That is who God elects. In John chapter 1, verse 11-12, we are told, "he came unto his own (Judah) and his own received him not, but to as many as received him, to them he gave them power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..

There is nothing here about preelection before the foundation of the world. His own did not receive him after it was expected they would. It was not the preselected who received him, but to as many as believed.

Believing is required for the new birth. Why? Because it is from God. It is a birth into the family of God. He does not just indiscriminately give his Spirit to men. They must believe in Jesus. The Spirit of God in the body is the agency of the new birth. He is life as has already in this chapter been pointed out. Look;


Jon 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus Christ is the son of God from his conception. How do I know this? Because all men who have the Spirit of God are sons of God. God elects those whom the Spirit indwells and puts into the body of Christ. The Spirit indwells those who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ died to atone for the sins of the whole world. Whosoever will, let him come and take of the water of life freely. Water in the physical has the same properties as the Spirit in the spiritual. There can be no life without it. It falls from the heaven in such abundance that all living may drink. It falls all over the world. All must drink to live. One must drink of the Spirit only once.

You need to reset because your religion does great harm to the truth.

You are in error friend with this conditional election fallacy, thats totally against Grace !

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you are reading your calvinism into the comment. No one is elect before they believe.

Yes they are elected before they believe.

 

[37818]

You are in error friend with this conditional election fallacy, thats totally against Grace !

No. It is what many believe. Conditional election is nevertheless Biblical. 1 Peter 1:1-2, ". . . elect according to . . . .". "According to" means a condition.

 

[Brightfame52]

No. It is what many believe. Conditional election is nevertheless Biblical. 1 Peter 1:1-2, ". . . elect according to . . . .". "According to" means a condition.

Its unbiblical !

 

[37818]

Its unbiblical !

So you really believe 1 Peter 1:1-2, ". . . Elect according to . . ." to be unBiblical?

 

[Brightfame52]

I never said anyone was saved before creation. I said chosen, elect. That is clear. Do you deny that our being chosen in Him was before creation?

. Salvation is eternal with regard to God because He is its Author .of it and He is Eternal Deut 33:27 Therefore, with God salvation has neither beginning nor ending. 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

However
with the elect, it does have a subjective beginning in time !

 

[Brightfame52]

So you really believe 1 Peter 1:1-2, ". . . Elect according to . . ." to be unBiblical?

No, you unbiblical.with it You dont understand that passage.