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The Doctrine Of Election Is Taught On The Cross!

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
In fact I would argue that the thief on the cross that repented, had been born again prior to his acknowledging of the Truth, because repentance is part of the New Birth process, the giving of new spiritual life. 1 Pet 1:3

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance
incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Begotten us again in the greek is:
anagennaō:
  1. to produce again, be born again, born anew

  2. metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
The thief manifested he had been granted new life, repentance from his Saviour.

Christ was Mighty to save even in His weakness 1 Cor 1:25

because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


 

AVL1984

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Thats how the natural man thinks about the grace of God.
Seems like you believe that...others don't. I think i'ts poor hermeneutics on your part. This seems to negate the part of the Bible that talks about the Gentiles living the law without ever knowing the law.....seems there is somewhat of a contradiction in the "no one does good" ideology portrayed by most Calvinists. No, living the law doesn't save them, but, it shows that they have a conscience and could very well act on free will to receive the things of God if Christ is presented.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Seems like you believe that...others don't. I think i'ts poor hermeneutics on your part. This seems to negate the part of the Bible that talks about the Gentiles living the law without ever knowing the law.....seems there is somewhat of a contradiction in the "no one does good" ideology portrayed by most Calvinists. No, living the law doesn't save them, but, it shows that they have a conscience and could very well act on free will to receive the things of God if Christ is presented.
Thats how it sounds to me.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
You have it backwards, One cant believe/ have Faith until they are being saved.

I have it in the exact order Scripture states it. Believe—and—thou shalt. Shalt what? Shalt be saved.

A person is saved—after—he believes.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
AVL1984: They are unable to believe Scripture as written. They have to reverse it, turn it upside down, and write it backward.

You’re right, but you’re wasting ink. They won’t accept Scripture—they won’t believe you.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
I have it in the exact order Scripture states it. Believe—and—thou shalt. Shalt what? Shalt be saved.

A person is saved—after—he believes.
I know what the scripture says, better yet I understand it, you have it backwards.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
It can be discussed. God gives repentance, thats what was manifested by the one thief, a change of mind.
I didn’t say it can’t be discussed per se. But your posts indicate that, for whatever reason, they are missing the points mine make, as if yours have lost sight of the OP, or never understood the claim made.

When this sort of thing happens and cannot be corrected, the discussion is effectively over, and perhaps never really got started.


What I glean from this sort of thing in general is that, whether or not someone is a scholar of scripture, he may not be much of a scholar in general.

If people understand and handle the text of God’s word as poorly as they do each other’s words, then it is a sad state of affairs indeed.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
I didn’t say it can’t be discussed per se. But your posts indicate that, for whatever reason, they are missing the points mine make, as if yours have lost sight of the OP, or never understood the claim made.

When this sort of thing happens and cannot be corrected, the discussion is effectively over, and perhaps never really got started.


What I glean from this sort of thing in general is that, whether or not someone is a scholar of scripture, he may not be much of a scholar in general.

If people understand and handle the text of God’s word as poorly as they do each other’s words, then it is a sad state of affairs indeed.
I see the doctrine of election in the thief narrative.from the op
 

AVL1984

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They were saved [regenerated] before they believed and or repented. So believing and repentance are evidences of having been saved, and not conditions performed in order to get saved.

Sorry, but there is no scriptural truth to that statement. It's a really blind man's distortion of the salvation message. How can they be saved before they repent? They can't be....period.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
Believe—then you will be saved. That’s Bible. Exactly the reverse is from Calvin’s imagination and man’s imaginations are consistently evil.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but there is no scriptural truth to that statement. It's a really blind man's distortion of the salvation message. How can they be saved before they repent? They can't be....period.
God saves them and gives them repentance. For you to even ask a question like that shows you have no ideal about salvation.
 

AVL1984

<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
God saves them and gives them repentance. For you to even ask a question like that shows you have no ideal about salvation.
Apparently, I know far more about it than you do. One isn't saved until one repents. You're exposing the flaw of Calvinist teachings.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but there is no scriptural truth to that statement. It's a really blind man's distortion of the salvation message. How can they be saved before they repent? They can't be....period.
Man is dead to God until God gives him life with repentance. Do you deny that naturally man is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins ?
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Apparently, I know far more about it than you do. One isn't saved until one repents. You're exposing the flaw of Calvinist teachings.
Sorry you are in error, man cannot and does not repent until he is made alive spiritually, you are manifesting the error freewill Arminianism, a religion of pride and self exaltation
 

AVL1984

<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
Sorry you are in error, man cannot and does not repent until he is made alive spiritually, you are manifesting the error freewill Arminianism, a religion of pride and self exaltation
Hogwash. Having free will in now way represents what you said. It's the typical Calvinist line that is false from the getgo! And the order of events in your description is of man's free will to lead others into a cultic belief.
 
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