The Doctrine of Justification: The True Gospel

[Gold Dragon]

Whew! After wading through about 50 posts, none of which dealt with the OP, I'd like to make a request.

Billwald linked the RCC Catechism, but I couldn't find with a quick search what it said about justification. So, to save time, will someone who knows please post the RCC doctrine on justification. I don't know exactly what it is, so i can't comment one way or the other.

Also, one other request. Rather than stating what the RCC teaches about justification, would it be possible to quote the RCC stating for itself what it believes? That way, nothing gets lost in translation.

Can anybody help?

The RCC is quite a wordy bunch so they do not have a one line statement about justification. I've linked the page in the catechism that deals with grace, justification and merit. It is quite long but I've highlighted a few statements that I think summarizes their view most effectively and is most relevant to this discussion.

Catechism of the Catholic Church: Grace and Justification
...
1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40
...
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. 46
...
2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning "favor," "gratuitous gift," "benefit."53 Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.54
...
2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

Any discussion on Catholics and Justification should also include the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification co-authored by Ratzinger and Lutherans and officially accepted by the RCC in 1999. I think the bolded portion is most significant because of the RCC's historical position on sola gratia, but the rest of the document is also quite important.

3. The Common Understanding of Justification
...
15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.
...
The Good Works of the Justified
...
38.According to Catholic understanding, good works, made possible by grace and the working of the Holy Spirit, contribute to growth in grace, so that the righteousness that comes from God is preserved and communion with Christ is deepened. When Catholics affirm the "meritorious" character of good works, they wish to say that, according to the biblical witness, a reward in heaven is promised to these works. Their intention is to emphasize the responsibility of persons for their actions, not to contest the character of those works as gifts, or far less to deny that justification always remains the unmerited gift of grace.

 

[Tom Butler]

Thanks, Johnv and Gold Dragon for answering my request.

The two statements on justification af first glance sound very much Biblical with two major exceptions. To Catholics, justification is directly tied to baptism.

From the catechism

Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:

This statement appears to be at odds with much of what has gone before.

The second exception is when it states that justification conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just....

In my view, justification confers on us the righteousness of Christ. We can never be just enough to satisfy God's justice. God doesn't make us inwardly just. He simply declares us just based on the merits of the Christ and his righteousness.

Sanctification is another matter, but that's not what we're dealing with here.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Thanks, Johnv and Gold Dragon for answering my request.

The two statements on justification sound very much Biblical with one major exception. To Catholics, justification is directly tied to baptism.

Yes. This is a commonly debated difference and is one of the main reasons that protestants say that Catholics believe in a works based salvation, because grace hinges on the "work" of Baptism.

I would say that the Catholic perspective on this isn't all that different from how many protestants view the "sinner's prayer". It is something we do to accept his free gift of grace.

 

[Gold Dragon]

The second exception is when it states that justification conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just....

In my view, justification confers on us the righteousness of Christ. We can never be just enough to satisfy God's justice. God doesn't make us inwardly just. He simply declares us just based on the merits of the Christ and his righteousness.

I'm not sure I see the difference between God declaring us just and making us inwardly just. Would you care to clarify?

We can never be just enough to satisfy God's justice.

I think that we can, through justification.

But maybe I'm not understanding what you mean here.

 

[Marcia]

I think the Catholic view of justification is in part what non-Catholics call sanctification. As far as I know, they do not have the view that one is declared righteous upon faith in Christ, and they reject the doctrine of imputation of righteousness upon faith. These are cornerstones of doctrine for non-Catholic faith.

Furthermore, justification, acc. to the Council of Trent, is a man becoming righteous, not merely declared righteous.

A good book on the differences is Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences, by Norman Geisler and Ralph E. MacKenzie. Both non-Catholics and Roman Catholics endorsed the book as a balanced discussion that gave accurate and fair treatment of the Roman Catholic teachings.

Chapter 12 on Justification is in the section under "Differences." It is a complex chapter that covers many areas of Catholic and non-Catholic teaching on justification, showing the differences.

It's interesting to me that 6 pages passed here before the topic was really addressed. As soon as someone started the topic, non-Catholics jumped in to proclaim Catholic bashing. It is not Catholic bashing to discuss this topic. There are differences.

 

[Matt Black]

Yes, there are differences, but these have been exaggerated as part-and parcel of the 16th century Reformation and Counter-Reformation polemics causing both sides to, to a degree, talk past each other.* A cursory read of both the canons of the Council of Trent and the Lutheran Book of Concord will demonstrate that. It's taken the Joint Declaration to undo much of that mutual misunderstanding.

*[ETA - thus Lutherans condemned what they thought Catholics believed, not what they actually believed, and vice versa. We see much the same syndrome on these boards...]

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Yes, there are differences, but these have been exaggerated as part-and parcel of the 16th century Reformation and Counter-Reformation polemics causing both sides to, to a degree, talk past each other.* A cursory read of both the canons of the Council of Trent and the Lutheran Book of Concord will demonstrate that. It's taken the Joint Declaration to undo much of that mutual misunderstanding.

Actually, the Council of Trent declared us all anathema for believing in salvation by grace.

 

[Matt Black]

I'm not sure that it anathematizes anyone for believing in salvation by grace since that is what Catholics believe - they'd scarcely go round anathematizing themselves, now would they?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Justification is conferred in Baptism

Aside from this being false with regard to Baptism, it is also false that justification is CONFERRED. It is not. It is imputed.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I'm not sure that it anathematizes anyone for believing in salvation by grace since that is what Catholics believe - they'd scarcely go round anathematizing themselves, now would they?

First of all, Catholics do not believe in salvation by grace.

Second, yes, it does call those who believe in salvation by grace anathema:

"If anyone saith that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified, let him be anathema" (Session 6, Can. 12).

 

[Matt Black]

Funny, I didn't see any mention of grace in that Tridentine quote you gave. And I think you'll find that Catholic do believe in salvation and justification by grace: see here

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Funny, I didn't see any mention of grace in that Tridentine quote you gave.

Doesn't surprise me.

 

[Matt Black]

Er...because the word isn't there.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Er...because the word isn't there.

Neither is the word "Trinity" found in the Bible. Do you deny the Trinity, as well?

 

[Matt Black]

Nope. But we are not talking about the Bible here (and you should know by now that I don't think that every jot and tittle of doctrine is to be found solely in the Bible); we are talking about a Tridentine Canon. And I've demonstrated in my link to the Catechism above that it's most unlikely that a Catholic Church Council would deny salvation by grace. So, putting that together, we've got:

1. The Canon you quote doesn't state that salvation by grace is anathema; and

2. Catholics believe in salvation by grace

My conclusion: I don't think you know what you're talking about here.

 

[Darron Steele]

I see some weaving. This was the original issue in regards to Matt Black pointing out a problem with one of your claims:

Actually, the Council of Trent declared us all anathema for believing in salvation by grace.

The justification you provided:

Council of Trent way back in the 1500's
"If anyone saith that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified, let him be anathema" (Session 6, Can. 12).​

Matt Black rightly pointed out that this quote does not have the word "grace" -- which means that your claim is not amply supported by the evidence you gave.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Nope. But we are not talking about the Bible here (and you should know by now that I don't think that every jot and tittle of doctrine is to be found solely in the Bible)

No, I don't believe that. As a Christian, I believe 2 Tim 3. The idea that there are extra-Biblical sources of doctrine is a Catholic idea, not a Christian one.

1. The Canon you quote doesn't state that salvation by grace is anathema

Yes, I can see how "LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" would have confused you.

2. Catholics believe in salvation by grace

My conclusion: I don't think you know what you're talking about here.

And I believe you're an anti-Christian troll who's just here to mock our beliefs and stir up trouble.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

n/t Done feeding the trolls.

 

[Matt Black]

No, I don't believe that. As a Christian, I believe 2 Tim 3. The idea that there are extra-Biblical sources of doctrine is a Catholic idea, not a Christian one.

Ah. Now which bit of II Tim 3 would that be: the bit where Paul talks about Scripture (vv.15-16) or the bit where he talks about non-Scriptural doctrinal sources (v14)?

Yes, I can see how "LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" would have confused you.

No, no confusion at all. I'm just saying I'm struggling to see the word 'grace' there attached to the anathema. Maybe you left a bit out. Oh wait - I've looked up the wording and you didn't - 'grace' isn't there in the original either. So it's a straw man.

And I believe you're an anti-Christian troll who's just here to mock our beliefs and stir up trouble.

No, I'm a Christian who is prepared to call someone on it when they are patently talking nonsense, injecting a word into a statement that just isn't there. If you have to resort to base crude insults that merely demonstrates how far you are from any credible argument. You're so far out you're not even wrong; like the Irish saying, "I wouldn't start from here."

 

[Johnv]

Done feeding the trolls.