The Doctrines of Grace, as Seen in the Old Testament.

[Alan Dale Gross]

A more accurate statement would be that Cal i it's use the Old Testament to try to support their philosophy.

But the actual doctrine of the "T" is the first head of doctrine.

Total Depravity;

“Here we are dealing with the nature and extent of sin, and the point is that we are all radically sinful,
so much so that we cannot take even the smallest steps toward God unless he first intervenes”

The Fall of the Race in Adam. “It is . . . a description of human beings in an utterly ruined state,
a state from which we are unable to deliver ourselves and in which we might all have been left to perish, and justly so”

1. Man is constituted a sinner by his relationship with Adam.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

2. Man is therefore unable;
To do anything good;
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Job 15:14-16 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?
Psa 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
Psa 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
Pro 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;
and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.
He is blinded and corrupt in his heart
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake;
for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Ecc 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea,
also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Unconditional Election;

God is Sovereign;

Exo 15:18 The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.
1Ch 29:11-12 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty:
for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might;
and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all.
2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen?
and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
Psalm 103:19 The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
Daniel 4:34-35 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me,
and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion,
and his kingdom is from generation to generation: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing:
and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

He exercises that sovereignty in actively ordaining everything;
Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal:
neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
1Sa 2:6-8 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich:
he bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill,
to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:
for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
Job 9:12 Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
Job 12:6-10 The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.
But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Psa 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God elects [i.e. chooses, predestines, foreordaines]; Individuals to salvation;
Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts:
we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
Isa 43:6-7 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

con't;

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Limited Atonement;

God purposed to redeem a certain people and not others;

1Ch 17:20-21 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people,
to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?
It is for these in particular that Christ gave his life;
Is 53:10-11 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

Irresistible Grace;

Faith and Repentance (as well as the new heart which is able to produce them) are themselves gifts of God;

A new heart;
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh,
and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them:
and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The Father writes his own word upon (places the fear of himself in, etc.) his people's hearts;
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good;
but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

The beginning of salvation is the sovereign impartation of spiritual life into a heart which had been dead, thereby causing it to exercise faith;
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:
and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Eze 37:3-6, 11-14 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
And I will lay sinews upon you, and willbring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live;
and ye shall know that I am the LORD....Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel:
behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land:
then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Perseverance of the Saints;

What God begins, He finishes;

Psa 138:8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.
Ecc 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it:
and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
Isa 46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you:
I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good;
but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 

[Zaatar71]

Limited Atonement;

God purposed to redeem a certain people and not others;

1Ch 17:20-21 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people,
to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?
It is for these in particular that Christ gave his life;
Is 53:10-11 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

Irresistible Grace;

Faith and Repentance (as well as the new heart which is able to produce them) are themselves gifts of God;

A new heart;
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh,
and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them:
and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The Father writes his own word upon (places the fear of himself in, etc.) his people's hearts;
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good;
but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

The beginning of salvation is the sovereign impartation of spiritual life into a heart which had been dead, thereby causing it to exercise faith;
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:
and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Eze 37:3-6, 11-14 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
And I will lay sinews upon you, and willbring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live;
and ye shall know that I am the LORD....Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel:
behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land:
then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Perseverance of the Saints;

What God begins, He finishes;

Psa 138:8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.
Ecc 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it:
and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
Isa 46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you:
I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good;
but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Thanks for these clear posts that show the doctrine of grace through the OT.

 

[JD731]

@Alan Dale Gross

#1 - There is no Bible teaching called the doctrines of grace in either Testament. It is a made up system of theology.

#2 - God in his sovereignty has chosen his providence to deal with fallen humanity in time. This gives him the platform to demonstrate his Divine attributes and wisdom and glory while allowing men the free will choice of whom they will serve.

#3 Conclusion: your approach is religious, not biblical.


Re 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

My point is proven if all things do not bring the creator pleasure.

 

[JD731]

2. Man is therefore unable;
To do anything good;

Ge 4:7 If thou doest well <03190>, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well <03190>, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Jehovah is speaking to Cain in his presence and giving him a clear choice of action with the consequences of either decision.

03190 יָטַב‎ yatab [yaw-tab’]

a primitive root; v; [BDB-405b] [{See TWOT on 863 }]

AV-well 35, good 21, please 14, merry 5, amend 4, better 4, accepted 2, diligently 2, misc 20; 107

1) to be good, be pleasing, be well, be glad
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be glad, be joyful
1a2) to be well placed
1a3) to be well for, be well with, go well with
1a4) to be pleasing, be pleasing to
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to make glad, rejoice
1b2) to do good to, deal well with
1b3) to do well, do thoroughly
1b4) to make a thing good or right or beautiful
1b5) to do well, do right

The scriptures shows you to be in error. Will you accept correction? It is your choice.

 

[JonC]

Limited Atonement;

God purposed to redeem a certain people and not others;

1Ch 17:20-21 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people,
to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?
It is for these in particular that Christ gave his life;
Is 53:10-11 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

Irresistible Grace;

Faith and Repentance (as well as the new heart which is able to produce them) are themselves gifts of God;

A new heart;
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh,
and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them:
and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The Father writes his own word upon (places the fear of himself in, etc.) his people's hearts;
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good;
but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

The beginning of salvation is the sovereign impartation of spiritual life into a heart which had been dead, thereby causing it to exercise faith;
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:
and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Eze 37:3-6, 11-14 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
And I will lay sinews upon you, and willbring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live;
and ye shall know that I am the LORD....Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel:
behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land:
then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Perseverance of the Saints;

What God begins, He finishes;

Psa 138:8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.
Ecc 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it:
and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
Isa 46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you:
I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good;
but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

The problem here is you are starting with an idea and then going to Scripture for support.

The free-will position can do exactly the same and have just as many passages.

 

[iwillblessthelord]

Total Depravity;

“Here we are dealing with the nature and extent of sin, and the point is that we are all radically sinful, so much so that we cannot take even the smallest steps toward God unless he first intervenes”

The Fall of the Race in Adam. “It is . . . a description of human beings in an utterly ruined state, a state from which we are unable to deliver ourselves and in which we might all have been left to perish, and justly so”

1. Man is constituted a sinner by his relationship with Adam.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

2. Man is therefore unable;
To do anything good;
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Job 15:14-16 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?
Psa 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
Psa 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
Pro 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.
He is blinded and corrupt in his heart
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Ecc 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Unconditional Election;

God is Sovereign;

Exo 15:18 The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.
1Ch 29:11-12 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all. Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might; and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all.
2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
Psalm 103:19 The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
Daniel 4:34-35 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

He exercises that sovereignty in actively ordaining everything;
Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
1Sa 2:6-8 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
Job 9:12 Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
Job 12:6-10 The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly. But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Psa 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God elects [i.e. chooses, predestines, foreordaines]; Individuals to salvation;
Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
Isa 43:6-7 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

con't;

Dear Alan, Your post beautifully captures the weight of our human condition and the awe-inspiring sovereignty of God. The scriptures you shared remind us how deeply sin has affected us all, leaving us unable to find our way back to God without His gracious intervention. It’s a humbling truth, one that stirs both sorrow for our fallen state and gratitude for God’s unending mercy. The doctrine of Total Depravity shows us the depth of our need, but it also points us to the hope found in God’s outstretched hand.

Your exploration of Unconditional Election highlights the comfort of knowing that God, in His infinite wisdom and love, chooses us not because of our merit but because of His divine purpose. This truth can feel overwhelming, yet it’s also a source of peace, reminding us that our salvation rests securely in His unchanging will. The verses you’ve chosen, like Psalm 65:4, paint a picture of a God who lovingly calls His people to Himself, offering them a place in His presence.

I’d like to add that these truths invite us to lean into God’s grace daily. When we recognize our inability to save ourselves, it fosters a heart of repentance and reliance on Him. For those struggling with feelings of unworthiness or despair, these doctrines can be a gentle reminder that God’s love is not earned but freely given. We can find strength in prayer and scripture to navigate the challenges of our fallen nature, trusting that God is at work in us.

Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful reflection. It encourages us all to rest in God’s sovereignty and seek His guidance in our journey toward holiness.

 

[Zaatar71]

@Alan Dale Gross

#1 - There is no Bible teaching called the doctrines of grace in either Testament. It is a made up system of theology.

Doctrine means teaching. Are you suggesting there is no teaching of God's grace in either testament?

#2 - God in his sovereignty has chosen his providence to deal with fallen humanity in time.

Did God have a plan and purpose before time?

This gives him the platform to demonstrate his Divine attributes and wisdom and glory while allowing men the free will choice of whom they will serve.

Fallen men are bound in a self will that is sinful, not free.

#3 Conclusion: your approach is religious, not biblical.

your conclusion is philosophical and not scriptural at all.

Re 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

My point is proven if all things do not bring the creator pleasure.

God gets all the glory as he carries out His decree.

 

[JD731]

Doctrine means teaching. Are you suggesting there is no teaching of God's grace in either testament?

No, that is not what I said. There is no doctrines, plural, of grace, in either testament. There is a doctrine of grace and it is an attribute of God. He exercises his grace as a matter of his person so therefore we can see his acts of grace in both testaments. In a perfect world we would not be able to see it.
Not only is it an attribute of his person but in this age between the cross and his coming, it is a display of his wisdom as it is the operative principle of his Divine dealing with men called "THE" dispensation of grace by the apostle Paul as he explains it in his 13 letters to the nations. Even the heavenly host experiences jaw dropping incredulity by their heavenly observation of God's formation of the church of Jesus Christ, his body and his bride. See Note #1 below.

Did God have a plan and purpose before time?

See Ephesians 3:11 below and honor the context.

Fallen men are bound in a self will that is sinful, not free.

Your doctrine of man is askew and I am exercising my will by pointing it out to you.

your conclusion is philosophical and not scriptural at all.

God gets all the glory as he carries out His decree.

God is not glorified by sending men to hell. See note #2 below.

It is not too late to repent of this bad teaching you have embraced.


Note #1
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Note #2

Re 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[Zaatar71]

No, that is not what I said. There is no doctrines, plural, of grace, in either testament.

Of course there is. There is more than one manifestation of God's grace. There are plural examples of Grace.
Noah finding grace in the eyes of the Lord.
God singling out The Nations of Israel
God preserving an elect remnant in that nation.
God preserving lot from the totally depraved perverts in that city.
God having an elect servant to come for both Jew and gentile
God preserving the godly line throughout the sin and rebellion of idolatrous and rebellious Israelites.
God sending prophets to warn of the wrath to come

There is a doctrine of grace and it is an attribute of God.

There are many aspects of grace, not just one.

He exercises his grace as a matter of his person so therefore we can see his acts of grace in both testaments. In a perfect world we would not be able to see it.
Not only is it an attribute of his person but in this age between the cross and his coming, it is a display of his wisdom as it is the operative principle of his Divine dealing with men called "THE" dispensation of grace

No, his method of dealing with fallen men is His Covenant of Redemption and grace.

by the apostle Paul as he explains it in his 13 letters to the nations. Even the heavenly host experiences jaw dropping incredulity by their heavenly observation of God's formation of the church of Jesus Christ, his body and his bride. See Note #1 below.

Angels do desire to stoop down and to look into His great redemptive grace in salvation

See Ephesians 3:11 below and honor the context.

Your doctrine of man is askew and I am exercising my will by pointing it out to you.

you have self will , yes, bound by your nature.

God is not glorified by sending men to hell. See note #2 below.

He certainly is;
In sum, hell glorifies God because

• it shows that he keeps his word;
• it shows his infinite worth, lasting forever;
• it demonstrates his power to subdue all who rebel against him;
• it shows how unspeakably merciful he is to those who trust him;
• it upholds the reality of love by visiting justice against those who reject God, who is love;
• it vindicates all who suffered to hear or proclaim the truth of God’s word;
• and it shows the enormity of what Jesus accomplished when he died to save all who would trust him from the hell they deserved. If there were no hell, there would be no need for the cross.
• How Does Hell Glorify God? - 9Marks

It is not too late to repent of this bad teaching you have embraced.

Right back at you my friend. You have not laid hold of the true teaching yet.

Note #1
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Yes, the Eternal Covenant of Redemption and grace unfolded in time and made known to the church.

Re 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but they will surely be judged.