Where in the world did anyone get the idea that personal motivation determines whether or not drugs are a gateway to demonic activity. That doesn't even make any sense.
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The doorway of Drugs to the spirit world
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
Crazy isn't it? Apparently it comes from a book written by Erwin W. Lutzer.
Interesting that unregenerate man has no free will, except when it comes to wanting to be possessed by demons.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Unregenerate man does have a free will, but his will is to sin and that my friend he is free to do.
Ah, but to pull out the philosophical argument therein -- is his will free to NOT sin? And if his will is only predisposed to sin, what freedom does he have, since he's in bondage to sin?
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Man has the freedom to do whatever God enables him to do. Man had the freedom and ability to come to God without being regnerated because God is just that powerful.
You're missing the point. In the context of this thread, apparently man has the free will to decide if he takes this drug medicinally he's safe from demon possession, but if he takes it recreationally, he's open to possession.
Why don't you answer the question:
Why would demons need a person to be a hallucinating drug user to make it "easier" for them to possess a person?
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I'm trippin' just thinkin' about it....
There is no way in any of those passages that you can prove without a doubt that it was fermented grape juice.
Seems to reason that since alcohol has such strong condemnation in scripture that whenever the word wine is used it is probably referring to fermented juice.
The only plausible option I could see alcohol being permitted is for medical purposes,it's also interesting to note that the first mention of alcohol in the bible did not result in anything good, this refers to the Law of first mention.
There is absolutely not a single scriptural proof that would show God condones alcohol in any way, there are plenty ones that clearly condemn it.
This is not hard to understand.
God sees the motivation of a person's heart, we also know that Satan and his demons are subject to the power of Christ, we see this is Job when Satan must get permission to vex Job, God allowed this as a testing, we also see in the Psalms where the bible says God sent evil angels to Egypt as a punishment for their idolatry.
We see here two things
1. God has control over demons
2. God uses demons to punish and vex people, both to test the righteous and to punish the wicked.
We know that God deals with people according to their actions.
(Whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap)
There is a big difference between a person taking drugs for pain relief, and some living in the idolatry of self pleasure and taking drugs for recreational drug highs.
I think logically it makes sense that God is more likely to allow demonic influence in the person taking drugs for recreational use than he is for someone taking drugs for medical purposes, God knows the hearts and I believe he deals with people according to the heart.
Also with drugs that do have the potential for hallucinations and such, I think there is a big difference between say a Christian who is right with God who takes Dilaudid, and say a lost person or someone who is not right with God who takes this drug, I would say God is going to allow different degrees of involvement from evil spirits because of the two very conditions of the heart, perhaps the lost person or backslidden Christian are not taking the drug to abuse it, yet God still may use the sitation for chastening or punishment of sin with evil angels.
God does use evil spirits to vex people for his purposes, and this plays a huge role in the use of drugs.
Don't forget that God is sovereign when it comes to things of this matter.
God sees the motivation of a person's heart, we also know that Satan and his demons are subject to the power of Christ, we see this is Job when Satan must get permission to vex Job, God allowed this as a testing, we also see in the Psalms where the bible says God sent evil angels to Egypt as a punishment for their idolatry.
We see here two things
1. God has control over demons
2. God uses demons to punish and vex people, both to test the righteous and to punish the wicked.
We know that God deals with people according to their actions.
(Whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap)
There is a big difference between a person taking drugs for pain relief, and some living in the idolatry of self pleasure and taking drugs for recreational drug highs.
I think logically it makes sense that God is more likely to allow demonic influence in the person taking drugs for recreational use than he is for someone taking drugs for medical purposes, God knows the hearts and I believe he deals with people according to the heart.
Also with drugs that do have the potential for hallucinations and such, I think there is a big difference between say a Christian who is right with God who takes Dilaudid, and say a lost person or someone who is not right with God who takes this drug, I would say God is going to allow different degrees of involvement from evil spirits because of the two very conditions of the heart, perhaps the lost person or backslidden Christian are not taking the drug to abuse it, yet God still may use the sitation for chastening or punishment of sin with evil angels.
God does use evil spirits to vex people for his purposes, and this plays a huge role in the use of drugs.
Don't forget that God is sovereign when it comes to things of this matter.
Does your Bible have Isaiah 25:6? Deuteronomy 14:26? Numbers 28:7?
Care to exegete these and show clearly that they refer to permission to drink fermented alcohol?
http://www.learnthebible.org/deuteronomy-1426-endorsement-for-drinking-or-not.html
I especially would like the highlight these statements in response to the verses you posted:
The full revelation concerning the dangers of strong drink had not yet been given. Revelation is progressive throughout the Bible. What is known at one age may not have been revealed at another. Paul referred to times of ignorance when God winked at certain practices (Acts 17:30).
We must remember that God permitted certain things in earlier times that are not permitted today, even things that were not especially desired by Him. For instance, under the law divorce was freely allowed and even bigamy was tolerated. Deuteronomy 21:15 gives instructions to a man who had two wives. All things have not always been the same.
In Isaiah 25:6 God is providing us with the finest, aged wine (read: fermented wine). You seem to be implying that He is ignorant when He supplies us with this wine.
This OT/NT sword cuts both ways. If we are not to "look on the wine when it is red" in the Old Testament, maybe it's OK in the NT.
Show me where in the Bible the use of alcohol is condemned in the New Testament?
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Can you show me in the New Testament where Incest is condemned?
No, but we weren't talking about incest.
Now, what about God providing us with fermented wine at the marriage supper of the Lamb? (Isaiah 25:6)?
What about Paul telling Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake?
What about one of the qualifications for NT bishops is that they should "not be given to much wine", the implication that abstinence is not being commanded, but moderation is being taught.