Calvin was excommunicated by the papal church. By the way the papists are arminians. Calvin's house was demolished by the papists. In France there were two groups. The Papists and the Reformé. The papists by mass murder wiped out most of the reformé, or they escaped to England and Holland, Many of them were craftsmen, notably weavers. Many of the weavers came to England and set up business here. If you are not reformed, you are unreformed and therefore Catholic.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The effect of Free Will on Scripture.
- Thread starter 1689Dave
- Start date
- Status
Calvin was excommunicated by the papal church. By the way the papists are arminians. Calvin's house was demolished by the papists. In France there were two groups. The Papists and the Reformé. The papists by mass murder wiped out most of the reformé, or they escaped to England and Holland, Many of them were craftsmen, notably weavers. Many of the weavers came to England and set up business here. If you are not reformed, you are unreformed and therefore Catholic.
every verse is true, yet ignores the position posted
yes we are all sinners needing redemption or we would not be here. Humanity did not cause sin, Sin is spiritual not physical.
We were condemned before we got here,, according to Jesus,,, John chapter 5 and 3
Those who reject Jesus stand already judged and condemned by God...
Personal incredulity is just another logical fallacy used to defend false doctrine.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen through faith in the truth. You can deny it till the cows come home, but that will not change the verse.
All scripture supports faith before election, salvation, regeneration, including Ephesians 2:1-10.
Calling scriptural doctrine an abomination to false doctrine is a waste of electrons.
Did I say anyone was "self righteous?" Nope so more deflection.
This has been addressed again and again. The things does not mean "all the things" because it does not include spiritual milk, just read 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. Obvious;y men of flesh can understand spiritual milk.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Free-will is not a scripturally supported philosophy. It is a man-made concept created by men to curse God for being Supreme over their lives.
Humans sinned. God did not cause them to sin. Humans acted in disobedience because God gave Satan the opportunity to tempt man and man failed to obey. Humans are guilty, both spiritually and physically of sinful rebellion against God. Humans justly deserve hell as our judgment. Nobody's fault but mine. Own it. Recognize you are saved purely by God's grace alone, not because you so brilliantly chose to accept God's offer. You and I, by nature, would utterly rebel, but for the grace of God.
Free-will spits in the face of God's grace and glorifies human choice. It is an abomination of prideful men to shout "free-will" when God saved you because you were pathetically lost in the depth of darkness and depravity and you could not get out unless God saved you all by himself.
We are condemned by the reason of our sins, who does the judging and pronounces condemnation, Jesus right ? per God
Jhn 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
not as a man though
Jhn 8:15
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
so
Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18
¶
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
We ARE condemned but not as Humans, We are condemned as spiritual beings that sinned. then became human why?
Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Dave G
Well-Known Member
It did?
I wasn't aware that the institution that cursed it in 1563, actually gave birth to it.
I believe the Bible, MB, not John Calvin.
Also, I encourage you to study some history.
If "Calvinism" ( unconditional election ) came from the Roman Catholic Church, then why don't they teach it today?
Why didn't they teach it in 1563, when the Council of Trent concluded?
Why did they abandon it in the time frame from 529 until now, and adopt "Molinism" ( basically the same thing as " Wesleyan Arminianism " ), which is the teaching that a man cooperates ( man does his part, God does His part...please refer to the teachings of the following men: John R. Rice, John Wesley, Luis de Molina, etc. ) with God to gain salvation?
Sir,
I really think you should look a bit deeper into history ( and God's word ) before believing that the teaching of unconditional election originated with the Roman Church.
It didn't.
It's in the Bible.
It originated with Jesus Christ.
He revealed parts of it to His prophets and apostles...
Job ( Job 10:8 )
Moses ( Exodus 33:19 ).
David ( Psalms 65:4, Psalms 139:15-16 ).
Isaiah ( Isaiah 49:1 ).
Jeremiah ( Jeremiah 1:5 ).
John ( John 6, and several other places ).
Peter ( 1 Peter 1, 1 Peter 2, 2 Peter 1 ).
Paul ( Galatians 1:15 and many other places, including Romans 8, Romans 9, Romans 10, Romans 11, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2, 2 Thessalonians 2. ).
May His grace be in your heart, and on your mind.
Last edited:
Dave G
Well-Known Member
The St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre of 1572.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Well, I have met a gnostic here at the Baptist Board. I didn't expect it, but here you are.
Humans are judged both spiritually and physically. Our flesh dies. Our spirit goes to hell...unless God chooses to reconcile us to himself.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." ( 1 Corinthians 2:11-16 ).
Here it is in the NKJV ( which I believe they came pretty close with ):
" For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is [rightly] judged by no one.
16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ."
I get something quite a bit more obvious out of it, in the other direction, Van.
Tell me something...
What do the words of this passage tell you?
Especially the bolded and the underlined?
Are you able to follow along with this passage, and tell those who are reading your posts what it is stating, in your own words?
I'm curious, sir.
Would you break this down, line by line and verse by verse, and give me your commentary on it?
When you are done, I will give you mine and we can compare them together.
Thanks in advance, and I await your reply.
Last edited:
no I am the opposite, The spiritual sins, not the physical, The physical cannot sin. no inherited sin
gnostics seem to see only the spiritual as good , physical as evil. This is obviously wrong. Humanity is the method whereby the death of one can be shared by many. Spiritual beings do not have a kinship. each being made by God individually
Humanity is a good thing , for God's purpose. We are obviously have been taught differently.
Augustine wrote the doctrine of the Catholic church and Calvinist still hold it in reverence. Calvinist are in fact reformed Catholics. Even the lutherians still follow the old Catholic doctrine.The unreformed are the original Catholics. Are you sure they escaped only to England and Holland. I believe Calvin went to Geneva. They called him the Pope of Geneva. He forced people to accept his doctrines and those who didn't, didn't live very long.Nothing good ever came out of the Catholic Church that includes the Augustinian doctrines.
MB
That may be what you call your self but in reality you are a Calvinist. By the way the Baptist church has not been reformed it has been invaded.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
Bartholomew was only one Massacre.
That was only one massacre. There was a small massacre (if any massacre can be called small) previous to that in Wassy, when the troops of the duke of Guise attacted a barn where Christians were worshipping. We visited Wassy, old spelling was Vassy, but pronounced the same, where the barn has been reconstructed. We later visited the Calvin museum in Noyon, where we purchased a book entitled The massacre at Vassy and the Wars of Religion.
It mentions Bartholomew, and Christians being sent to the Galleys for life for attending a church service. The gallley slaves shown in a drawing were a long line of captives all chaines together at the ankles and soldiiers beating them as they went. Another picture shows a prisoner with a are back, on a galley being held down and being beaten with a long flexible whip, by a "Batard." I assume that means someone using a baton, but the word in English has an S before the T..
Women caught attending a service were sentenced to life imprisonment. In the south, it was in the Tower of Constance, in the town of Aigre Mortes (Bitter Deaths).
Among the last to be released was an 82 year old man and a woman of 52 who had been imprisoned at the age of eight for attending a service with her mother. I think that was during the French Revolution in 1879
I can't find that book at present, it may not have survived or move about a year ago. I will have to try to get another copy next time we stay in France.
Can you tell me what those emoji's mean? They just show as numbers on my screen.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Laughing
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree...
It has been invaded by "free will" teaching, similar to the way that the Catholic church was over 1,600 years ago.
Many Baptist churches in New England, New York and Maine, 200-300 years ago, were "Calvinistic" and taught the "doctrines of grace".
Many in England even earlier than that, were "Calvinistic".
Most Baptist churches in the South, in America 200 years ago, were also "Calvinistic".
Nowadays, you'd be hard-pressed to find one in 100.
They almost all teach "free will"...
The same as the Roman Catholic Church and most other "Protestant" denominations, do.
Last edited:
Dave G
Well-Known Member
No, just spiritual things.
Spiritual milk can only be partaken of by those who are able.
That is part of why Peter told believers this:
" Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 if so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious." ( 1 Peter 2:1-3 ).
We, as Christ's sheep, are to lay aside the sin that so easily "besets" us ( Hebrews 12:1 ), all malice, guile ( slyness ) and hypocrisies, envying and all evil speakings ( speaking evil of people, or putting them down and tearing them apart, verbally ).
As newborn babes in Christ, we are to desire the sincere milk of the word, so that we may grow because of it.
We do so, IF we have tasted that the Lord is gracious...if we have truly received Him.
That milk...the word, can only be understood by those to whom it has been given ( Matthew 13:11 ).
Only those who are "of God" will "hear" God's words ( John 8:47 ).
Spiritually dead men cannot "hear" God, because they don't want to ( Ephesians 4:17-19 ).
Their "eyes" are blind, and their "ears" are deaf.
They are "dead", towards God and His commands, in trespasses and sins.
Not physically dead, but spiritually "dead".
They will not listen to God.
Their will is not free, but in spiritual bondage to sin and their love for it.
Now, let's read 1 Corinthians 3:1-3:
" And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"
Here Paul is telling the Corinthians that they are yet immature...babes in Christ.
He cannot speak to them as mature believers, but as "carnal"...
As spiritual children.
He tells them that he has fed them with milk and not with meat...because they were not able, and they are still not able.
They are walking as men, not as the sons of God that they are.
Finally, please read my prior post to you ( # 71 ) and answer it, if you are so inclined.
Again, thanks in advance.
Last edited:
- Status