The effect of Free Will on Scripture.

[Van]

The premise of the OP is valid, we see scripture through the prism of our beliefs. Confirmatory bias is:
"Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. "

1) Those that are spiritually "dead in their sins" are unable to seek God and put their faith in Christ. To support this fallacy, no scripture was cited, just a lexicon containing the Calvinist view. But if a person believes being spiritually dead means they are unable to seek God, every time they see the concept in scripture, their bias is reinforced.

2) Does everyone who rejects "total spiritual inability" believe they save themselves when they choose to trust in Christ? Nope. Salvation only occurs when God credits the faith as righteousness, so salvation does NOT depend on the man who wills or runs, but on God.

 

[1689Dave]

The premise of the OP is valid, we see scripture through the prism of our beliefs. Confirmatory bias is:
"Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. "

1) Those that are spiritually "dead in their sins" are unable to seek God and put their faith in Christ. To support this fallacy, no scripture was cited, just a lexicon containing the Calvinist view. But if a person believes being spiritually dead means they are unable to seek God, every time they see the concept in scripture, their bias is reinforced.

2) Does everyone who rejects "total spiritual inability" believe they save themselves when they choose to trust in Christ? Nope. Salvation only occurs when God credits the faith as righteousness, so salvation does NOT depend on the man who wills or runs, but on God.

But they trust in their faith instead of Christ.

 

[Van]

But they trust in their faith instead of Christ.

When God credits their faith as righteousness, the result, no matter how flawed their faith was, is salvation.

 

[1689Dave]

When God credits their faith as righteousness, the result, no matter how flawed their faith was, is salvation.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith[faithfulness]; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8–10 (KJV 1900)

The new birth creates a faithful heart that spawns faithful reactions to God's word. It precedes any action that depends on it.

 

[Van]

“For by grace are ye saved through faith[faithfulness]; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8–10 (KJV 1900)

The new birth creates a faithful heart that spawns faithful reactions to God's word. It precedes any action that depends on it.

Since the fact that God credits our faith as righteousness, or not, was not addressed, I assume you are in agreement. And that is why you moved on to another topic.

Not sure which version says we are saved by grace through faithfulness, that sounds like a works based salvation. If we are presenting our view of that text, we are saved by grace through [God crediting our] faith.

The new birth occurs when we are placed in Christ. So the sequence is (1) we hear the gospel, (2) we are drawn by the Father, (3) we heard and learned from the Father, (4) we put our faith in Christ, (5) God credits that faith (or not) as righteousness, (6) God puts those whose faith He credits as righteousness into Christ, where we are born anew.

 

[1689Dave]

Since the fact that God credits our faith as righteousness, or not, was not addressed, I assume you are in agreement. And that is why you moved on to another topic.

Not sure which version says we are saved by grace through faithfulness, that sounds like a works based salvation. If we are presenting our view of that text, we are saved by grace through [God crediting our] faith.

The new birth occurs when we are placed in Christ. So the sequence is (1) we hear the gospel, (2) we are drawn by the Father, (3) we heard and learned from the Father, (4) we put our faith in Christ, (5) God credits that faith (or not) as righteousness, (6) God puts those whose faith He credits as righteousness into Christ, where we are born anew.

Here's the proper order. 1) we are born again (saved) and can understand spiritual truth for the first time. 2) we hear the gospel and delight in it. 3) we seek holiness as a lifestyle.

 

[Van]

Here's the proper order. 1) we are born again (saved) and can understand spiritual truth for the first time. 2) we hear the gospel and delight in it. 3) we seek holiness as a lifestyle.

Since we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, your sequence is not found in scripture. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Made alive = quickened = regenerated = born anew

Where and when are we made alive? Together with Christ, thus when we are placed in Christ and not before. Ephesians 2:5

 

[1689Dave]

Since we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, your sequence is not found in scripture. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Made alive = quickened = regenerated = born anew

Where and when are we made alive? Together with Christ, thus when we are placed in Christ and not before. Ephesians 2:5

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900) = 1) we are born again (saved) and can understand spiritual truth for the first time. 2) we hear the gospel and delight in it. 3) we seek holiness as a lifestyle.

 

[Particular]

Since we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, your sequence is not found in scripture. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Made alive = quickened = regenerated = born anew

Where and when are we made alive? Together with Christ, thus when we are placed in Christ and not before. Ephesians 2:5

We are not chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. That is your twist and many pages have been devoted to showing you how wrong you are. Yet, you refuse to repent of your false statement.
We are chosen for salvation, despite our wicked, rebellious, spirit that is antagonistic toward God and dead in trespasses and sins. We are made alive with Christ by grace and saved through the faith that God gives us...after he makes us alive with Christ.
This truth is clearly presented in Ephesians 2:1-10, yet you have twisted the process around and glorified your self as the cause agent whereby your own, personal, faith moves God to call you righteous and thus choose you.
What an abomination of God's gracious work you have created. It comes from hell and you continue to promote it as being from God. The Apostle John says your teaching is the spirit of antichrist, which is in the world.
All who are redeemed will see your false doctrine and turn away. All who glory in their self-righteousness will embrace your words and lift up themselves as the agents of their own choosing.
I reject your teaching as antichrist.

 

[loDebar]

Salvation is offered to all, those who choose to accept His pardon are chosen to service

 

[Particular]

Salvation is offered to all, those who choose to accept His pardon are chosen to service

Yes, salvation (reconciliation) is shared as a general call by God's ambassadors, but only the elect will respond positively. Humans, by nature, find the idea of reconciliation to be utter foolishness. Why reconcile when you believe you are the supreme ruler of your life? It's just silly to imagine there is anything you need to be saved from when you control your own destiny.
Every human will naturally reject such a silly message. Only those whom God elects to reconcile, despite they're personal belief that they are in control, will be brought to reconciliation.
So sure, universal call to reconciliation, but only God's elect will respond positively.

 

[loDebar]

Yes, salvation (reconciliation) is shared as a general call by God's ambassadors, but only the elect will respond positively. Humans, by nature, find the idea of reconciliation to be utter foolishness. Why reconcile when you believe you are the supreme ruler of your life? It's just silly to imagine there is anything you need to be saved from when you control your own destiny.
Every human will naturally reject such a silly message. Only those whom God elects to reconcile, despite they're personal belief that they are in control, will be brought to reconciliation.
So sure, universal call to reconciliation, but only God's elect will respond positively.

if God chooses who to save then He also chooses who not to save , so my condemnation to hell is God's fault,,, more lies

you need to conclude the logic of your statements

 

[Particular]

if God chooses who to save then He also chooses who not to save , so my condemnation to hell is God's fault,,, more lies

you need to conclude the logic of your statements

God is entirely just if he chooses to have us die in our sins. Your condemnation is entirely your fault.
That God chooses to redeem even one is an amazing act of grace.
How dare you think you deserve heaven! You don't! And neither do I. We both deserve to spend eternity in hell. Never forget that truth!!!

 

[loDebar]

condemnation is our fault, a choice in free will,

God did not create us condemned , He does not create one condemned just to send to hell.

do you not understand we were created sinless, We sinned and are condemned and them are given a second chance to be redeemed, Humanity is the method by one man many can be saved, We share the blood of Jesus. and thus His death.

to restate, we were not condemned as humans, , All judgement is given to the Son and He does not judge flesh. We were "condemned already" so we had to be condemned before being flesh,

Humanity and the physical world was created to hold and to redeem sinners, We have now been given the free choice to accept God's pardon as we had free choice to sin

 

[Particular]

condemnation is our fault, a choice in free will,

God did not create us condemned , He does not create one condemned just to send to hell.

do you not understand we were created sinless, We sinned and are condemned and them are given a second chance to be redeemed, Humanity is the method by one man many can be saved, We share the blood of Jesus. and thus His death.

to restate, we were not condemned as humans, , All judgement is given to the Son and He does not judge flesh. We were "condemned already" so we had to be condemned before being flesh,

Humanity and the physical world was created to hold and to redeem sinners, We have now been given the free choice to accept God's pardon as we had free choice to sin

We are born in sin.

Psalm 51:5

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 58:3

The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

Romans 5:12

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Ecclesiastes 7:20

Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Romans 3:23

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Genesis 8:21

And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.

Romans 5:19

For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Romans 3:10

As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

Ephesians 2:3

Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

1 John 1:10

If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Yeshua1]

Armenians ARE Calvinist.

If Calvinist were honest they could tell us their personal testimony of what happened. Instead they have fix their story every few years cause they can't get their theology straight.

Think about it I walk into your church and ask who in here is elect? Everyone in that church raises their hand, yet they need a Pastor to set their story straight.

You should have been independently tell us why you believe what you believe. You have to rip off a theologian even go to Seminary and school. WHY? so you can set your fake story straight.

At least we proclaim the true Gospel, unlike the Church of Rome, Sda, word of faith etc!

 

[MB]

At least we proclaim the true Gospel, unlike the Church of Rome, Sda, word of faith etc!

I completely disagree with this statement Calvinism isn't any more truth than the place it came from the Roman Catholic Church. Just like the Mormons who reformed there church yet are still Mormons. Calvinist are reformed Catholics same thing. Some wish to be called reformed yet they deny what exactly it is they reformed.
MB

 

[David Kent]

Armenians ARE Calvinist.

If Calvinist were honest they could tell us their personal testimony of what happened. Instead they have fix their story every few years cause they can't get their theology straight.

Think about it I walk into your church and ask who in here is elect? Everyone in that church raises their hand, yet they need a Pastor to set their story straight.

You should have been independently tell us why you believe what you believe. You have to rip off a theologian even go to Seminary and school. ? so you can set your fake story straight.

More bluster from you. I don't follow any theolgian. It really amazes me how many excuses some people have to deny the scriptures.

A US pastor and his wife in France invited my wife and I to lunch after their morning service. In conversation I mentioned something that happened when my daughter was doing some temporary office work before she went to university. Her manager said "That was a bit of luck." My daughter replied "If you believe in it." The manager, "Do you believe in predestination?" My daughter. "Yes I do actually." So everytime someone in the office made a mistake, the manager said "That wasn't a mistake, it was predestined/" The pastor said nothing, but his wife said "God foreknew who would be saved, so he presdestined them"

What sort of God is that. Actually if that was the case, because God foreknew, then it will happen so you have no choice anyway.

 

[Yeshua1]

I completely disagree with this statement Calvinism isn't any more truth than the place it came from the Roman Catholic Church. Just like the Mormons who reformed there church yet are still Mormons. Calvinist are reformed Catholics same thing. Some wish to be called reformed yet they deny what exactly it is they reformed.
MB

I am a Reformed Baptist, so see myself as having the best of both in theology!

 

[David Kent]

Armenians ARE Calvinist.

Do you know many Armenians. My cousin's wife is Armenian and I doubt if she is calvinist.