"The End of the Spear"

[Martin]

Marcia:

How do Christian bookstores maintain they sell Christian material when lots of them sell New Age books, heretical books (like Word of Faith), and other non-biblical material? Maybe you should not shop in any Christian bookstore until you check it out.

==I only shop at one Christian bookstore. They do not sell any new age or heretical material. While I do not agree with every book in their store they only stock christian authors. There are no Benny Hinn books. Besides this is not about what they sell. This is about who they hire to represent their "christian" organization. If the production company that made "End of the Spear" was not a "christian" company I would not care who they cast in the role. Lost people will be lost people. I am talking about the casting choices of a group of christians.
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I don't think seeing the film is "supporting" their decision to hire this man.

==I don't see how you can come to that conclusion. The production company is "banking" on the idea that christians will not be bothered by their casting choice(s). So when someone buys a ticket to see this movie they are making the production company's point. Regardless of their intent, by purchasing a ticket they are supporting this decision. Also buying a ticket helps the movie and those involved with it. Trying to divorce support and buying a ticket will not work.

Btw, did you agree with the SBC's boycott of Disney?
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But as I said, I respect those who do not wish to see this, unlike you, who does not respect the decisions of other believers here who plan to see the movie.

==Thats nice but this is not about "respect". This is about truth, and what is right. The kind of respect you are talking about is way too subjective.
__________________________________________

Okay, just wanted to be clear that you meant this.
So glad you are not the one I face on Judgement Day!

==Nice line. I must admit it. However it will not work. You see the Bible calls homosexuality a sin (1Cor 6:9-10, Rom 1:24-27, Lev 18:22, 20:13, 1Tim 1:8-11, etc). It is also the Bible that says, of homosexuality and other sins, "and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them" (Rom 1:32). This production company, while not defending homosexuality, is using an active, """activist""" homosexual to sell it's movie. And don't say they are not! One of the reasons they wanted Mr Allen is his resume.

I wonder if Disney or New Line Cinema had released this movie if you, and others, would be as willing to over-look this casting choice? I don't know but I am sure that Focus on The Family would not. Mainly if it were a Disney movie.

Martin.

 

[EdSutton]

Martin writes: "I wonder if Disney or New Line Cinema had released this movie if you, and others, would be as willing to over-look this casting choice? I don't know but I am sure that Focus on The Family would not. Mainly if it were a Disney movie."

It is a valid question, I am sure. Where do we draw the line in the sand?

Hey, I think I have the solution. I'll just rent the movie for three bucks and copy it on my DVD.
Ed

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
I wish they would make "Through Gates of Splinder" into a movie.

They did. It's available on dvd, I think. I saw it a ways back on video, and found it completely inspiring and uplifting.

 

[Berean]

What is the earliest revelation (other then a blog) to Steve Saint that C. Allen was homosexual?
Also the earliest to. Every tribe

 

[standingfirminChrist]

“When Chad Allen was first told by his agent that he was being offered a pivotal role in an independent film called End of the Spear, Allen asked point-blank, "’Do they know who I am?'”

Allen went into his first meeting with the film's producers and director with real trepidation that they and the Saint family-for whom, he stresses, he had great respect would not want a gay man representing their legacy. After he aired his concern, however, the filmmakers produced, of all things, the November 25, 2003, issue of The Advocate with Allen on the cover, in which the actor spoke of his faith and the importance of doing good works for the holidays. They had showed that issue to Steve Saint, the filmmakers told Allen. "And this man Steve Saint said that the same things that I talked about in The Advocate are the same things he fought his whole life for," Allen beams, "and it would wrong for them not to ask me to do it. That's an amazing story, right?"

No kidding. Allen's casting as Saints father, Nate-and, later in the film, as Steve himself-did not pass without further controversy, especially after a contentious Larry King Live appearance with minister John MacArthur the day President Bush announced his support for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. But by the end of production Allen was invited along with Saint and a select group of actors and producers from the film to live with the Waodani for several weeks, three days' journey from any working telephone. "When it was over," Allen says quietly, "both [Steve Saint] and I were in tears, hugging each other saying goodbye, because so much love had developed between us. It was an amazing experience:" 16

Interview

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by Berean:
What is the earliest revelation (other then a blog) to Steve Saint that C. Allen was homosexual?
Also the earliest to. Every tribe

==According to what I have read (to date) it sounds like they found out before they offered him the role. However they are now saying they did not find out until afterwards. This, of course, contradicts the written accounts. We are told that Mr Allen was concerned, and when he went to the "FIRST" meeting with the production company "THEY" showed him a copy of "The Advocate" magazine with Mr Allen's picture on the cover. I think, though I can't be certain, "Every Tribe" is simply trying to cover their tracks. We will see....

Martin.

 

[Martin]

Albert Mohler Speaks

Al Mohler is president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

"So, what of The End of the Spear? Put bluntly, I believe that the makers of this movie made a very reckless decision in casting Chad Allen as Nate and Steve Saint. Given the publicity of Chad Allen's activism and the intensity of his mission to normalize homosexuality -- a mission clearly articulated on his Web site -- it is hard, if not impossible, to suspend belief and see him as a missionary martyr for the Gospel. The distance between Nate Saint and Chad Allen is just too great. This mistake is compounded by the fact that this activism is so well known and well documented -- it's what Chad Allen makes central to his own identity.

Read More Here


Martin.

 

[Martin]

FIRST-PERSON: The ‘End of the Spear’ dilemma

This is from a commentary on Baptist Press today:

"The dilemma I face on whether or not to take my family to see “End of the Spear” does not come from the fact that Chad Allen is a homosexual, but rather that he is a homosexual activist that strongly advocates the societal acceptance of a lifestyle that I believe is aberrant and unhealthy.

Every Tribe Entertainment, a company committed to making films dedicated to “truth beyond imagination,” intentionally cast Allen knowing his homosexual activism. Apparently, it was no dilemma for them."

Read The Whole Article Here

Martin.

 

[John of Japan]

As a missionary, I've been following this thread with sadness. Having a homosexual activist play a missionary is just plain wrong. Even after reading the positive threads here I can't see how folks can argue that it is right.

I've posted before on another thread when the subject came up, and I'm going to repeat pretty much what I said there.

Nate Saint was a man's man--courageous, God fearing, adventurous. There is no way on earth a blatant homosexual can play that part without his lifestyle affecting his acting. I saw that somewhat in "Chariots of Fire," where frankly the homosexual actor made Eric Liddell look a little sissified. Liddell was also a man's man who went to China as a single missionary and died in a Japanese prison camp.

My fellow missionaries are very masculine and bold men. My co-worker Frank is former Air Force intelligence. He flew in the Viet Nam war zone listening to Russian fighter pilots, and sometimes landed under fire. He also flew on the border of Turkey and Russia listening to Russian fighter pilots, and one time heard a pilot ask for permission to shoot him down! Could a homosexual play Frank properly? No way in this world!

My other co-worker Dean is an ex-Marine. My good friend Tom is ex-Special Forces and a rocket engineer who worked on the space shuttle. Could a homosexual properly portray the manly demeanor of these men? Impossible.

Me? Okay, I consider myself a poor missionary. I freely admit that. But I hold black belts in four martial arts. Call me a wimp and then duck. "I magnify my office" (Rom 11:13).

Wimps can't be missionaries--they either quit Bible college, quit the application process, quit deputation or quit shortly after they reach the field. It is frankly disgusting what is happening with this movie.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Excerpt from the screening of 'End of the Spear'

If you go in with no previous knowledge of the events that took place 50 years ago, you will leave the theater never knowing if these missionaries were Christians. There is no mention in the movie of “Christ”, “Jesus”, “Christians”, the “gospel”, etc. For all we know, these missionaries could have been Mormon or some other cult.

Read rest of article here.

 

[shannonL]

My favorite team is the Pittsburgh Steelers. They play the Denver Broncos this weekend for the right to play in the superbowl.
Now if the game is close and it comes down to field position do you think they are going to try and let the broncos obtain good field position? Do you think they would do something idiotic and detremental to their winning that game? No way. I don't think if it is fourth down and the steelers got to punt, I don't think they tell the punter to run backwards and just place the ball on their own 2 yard line so Denver just has to run a play or two to get a go ahead touchdown.
In the same way evangelicals and decent americans alike are fighting for the right to uphold the moral foundations this country was based upon. Every play counts the stakes are high. Alot higher than the superbowl I might add.
So what did Steve Saint and his film co. buddies do? Instead of making the promoters of the militant, activist homosexual agenda drive the length of the field they go and give them the ball on about our own 10 yard line. You think Chad was stunned? Shoot man in his crusade to naturalize homosexuality into the mainstream Steve Saint and Co. just helped that whole immoral homosexual promoting crowd get close to taking the lead at a crucial point in the game.


Its not enought that my 11,9 and 4 year old have to hear about gays and all that junk on TV and eluded to in the shows that try to reach their age. Now we got that junk making its way into "supposedly evangelical movies.

Yeah somebody said I wonder if Dobson speaks out on this? Well we shall see if he is all about politics or the real deal?

Up until this point the story has always been remember those 5 missionaries that were slain in the 50's? Now with the internet and all that some kid 20 years from now will be able to read about the missionaries as well as the controversy of putting a gay dude to portray them in a movie.
Kinda sullies that whole thing a little bit don't ya think?

 

[JamieinNH]

Originally posted by Martin:
Albert Mohler Speaks

Al Mohler is president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"So, what of The End of the Spear? Put bluntly, I believe that the makers of this movie made a very reckless decision in casting Chad Allen as Nate and Steve Saint. Given the publicity of Chad Allen's activism and the intensity of his mission to normalize homosexuality -- a mission clearly articulated on his Web site -- it is hard, if not impossible, to suspend belief and see him as a missionary martyr for the Gospel. The distance between Nate Saint and Chad Allen is just too great. This mistake is compounded by the fact that this activism is so well known and well documented -- it's what Chad Allen makes central to his own identity.

Read More Here


Martin.

</font>[/QUOTE]Hey Martin,

Thanks for the link. Here is part of that link that I found interesting.


&lt;-snip-&gt;

First, Christians must have the cultural maturity to know that many of the most famous and influential producers of cultural materials, whether in literature, art, or entertainment, have been homosexuals. This does not mean that we cannot enjoy their music, art, or performances. Christians start from the presupposition that all humans are sinners, and that every artistic endeavor is marred by sin in both its conception and its demonstration.

Second, Christians must learn the discipline of cultural discernment based upon Christian truth. We must learn to engage the culture in a way that is both honest and missiological -- and we must work hard to develop a mind that brings all things under subjection to Christ, including our entertainment preferences and choices.

Third, we must avoid hypocrisy. We should not pick and choose recklessly as we condemn or praise without any obvious tie to biblical truth. We must not condemn publicly what we enjoy privately. We must not assert matters of taste as matters of principle.

Fourth, we must understand the nature of the art form and learn how to discriminate on the basis of an informed cultural understanding, not a knee-jerk reaction. Accordingly, we must understand that the very nature of acting, whether on stage or on screen, is based upon the ability of the actor to make the audience see the character portrayed, not the actor, in the performance.

&lt;-snip-&gt;


Based on these points, I think some of us need to rethink how we react to things happening in the entertainment world.

Another paragraph from that article I liked:

"Careful thinking is required here. We do not know what sexual sins or sins of other sorts may characterize so many of the actors, actresses, singers, music writers, authors, musicians, painters, sculptors, or directors we enjoy and appreciate. Christians are not called to conduct investigative hearings on such matters, and we begin with the assumption that all these, like ourselves, are sinners."


Again, thanks for the link. I didn't know Mr. Albert Mohler until this thread, so I can say I have gotten one good thing from it. I like what I have read from him so far...

Jamie

 

[shannonL]

The problem with the Chad Allen thing is that we do know what sexual sins he has been involved in.
The sin of homosexuality. He himself declares it to all the world. So know we can't know the sins of other folk. Unless they openly admit them. Which Mr. Chad has done.

 

[Bunyon]

The movie is excellent. It was a little distracting watching a martyred missionary being played by a pagan homosexual activist who has made no bones about his promiscuity. They could have easily gotten another actor and avoided the controversy. But it does not hinder the film from having a powerful impact. The books as about Steve Saint going back to live with the Accoas to help them cope with the modern world. But the movie deals with the details of how the Indians were converted. It is the story told mostly from their prospective. How they cam to follow the trail that God marked for them so that they could live well. Great Movie. The inclusion of Chad Allen would have been no problem if he did not insist on giving us all the details of his sex life.

 

[Bunyon]

"Careful thinking is required here. We do not know what sexual sins or sins of other sorts may characterize so many of the actors, actresses, singers, music writers, authors, musicians, painters, sculptors, or directors we enjoy and appreciate. Christians are not called to conduct investigative hearings on such matters, and we begin with the assumption that all these, like ourselves, are sinners."


Well that is a fine sentiment. But in this case, no investigation is required he is on the cover of gay magazines telling us the details of his promiscuity and on Larry King telling us how closed minded we are. You make good point here, but they just don't apply to this case, at all.

 

[JamieinNH]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
The movie is excellent. It was a little distracting watching a martyred missionary being played by a pagan homosexual activist who has made no bones about his promiscuity. They could have easily gotten another actor and avoided the controversy. But it does not hinder the film from having a powerful impact. The books as about Steve Saint going back to live with the Accoas to help them cope with the modern world. But the movie deals with the details of how the Indians were converted. It is the story told mostly from their prospective. How they cam to follow the trail that God marked for them so that they could live well. Great Movie. The inclusion of Chad Allen would have been no problem if he did not insist on giving us all the details of his sex life.

Thanks for that reply! It's one of few in these many threads that have had a ring of honesty to it.

I can understand and don't like the fact that a gay guy is playing the part, but getting past that, I am glad to hear the movie was good. I had planned to go see it, and now I know I will.

Thanks again for such an honest reply.

Jamie

 

[JamieinNH]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
"Careful thinking is required here. We do not know what sexual sins or sins of other sorts may characterize so many of the actors, actresses, singers, music writers, authors, musicians, painters, sculptors, or directors we enjoy and appreciate. Christians are not called to conduct investigative hearings on such matters, and we begin with the assumption that all these, like ourselves, are sinners."


Well that is a fine sentiment. But in this case, no investigation is required he is on the cover of gay magazines telling us the details of his promiscuity and on Larry King telling us how closed minded we are. You make good point here, but they just don't apply to this case, at all.

Just to clarify, this statement was not mine, it's one I clipped from the blog of Albert Mohler.

Although I don't disagree with you when it comes to this film, but I think in this statement, he was referring to movies in general.


Jamie

 

[Diggin in da Word]

When watching, one has to wonder why? Why do they not mention Christ? Why no mention of the Gospel? Why no mention of the Plan of Salvation at all?

If the movie was about these 5 unfortunate missionaries who gave their lives in the line of duty for their Lord, you would think the gospel would be discussed throughout the movie. But sadly, it was not mentioned one time.

I was highly disappointed.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Diggin in da Word:
When watching, one has to wonder why? Why do they not mention Christ? Why no mention of the Gospel? Why no mention of the Plan of Salvation at all?

If the movie was about these 5 unfortunate missionaries who gave their lives in the line of duty for their Lord, you would think the gospel would be discussed throughout the movie. But sadly, it was not mentioned one time.

I was highly disappointed.

You make a good point here, but please don't think of the missionaries as "unfortunate." What better way to offer your life on the altar to serve Jesus Christ? He taught us to "rejoice and be exceeding glad" when we are persecuted, for "great is your reward in Heaven!"

Hey, you defenders of this travesty, if you like movies, go see it. No skin off my missionary nose! But surely you can't expect it to minister to hearts and be used to call people to the mission field. Read the book by Elizabeth Elliot instead--now that has been used of God greatly.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Good point, John.

They were not unfortunate if they died for the Lord. Fro me to live is Christ, to die is gain.

This whole thing of the man who was on a mission to share God's Word being portrayed by a homosexual, and then the movie not being Christian at all, make me to know that we indeed are living in the last days.

How could Steve Saint allow this man to portray his dad. My sister told me that chad and Nate looked alike. I don't think so. compare the two pictures.