The Equality of Jesus to The Father

[MB]

I am not interested in impressing anyone but tell it to you the way that it is. You are free to check things out for yourself and correct me where you think I am wrong

Unless I misunderstood you it seems you said;

God the Father and Jesus Christ are not the same Person,

Christ said He and the Father are one.

So you do not know what the Greek text says or means, and yet you keep stating stuff that seems to imply that Jesus is not fully God?

I read the same from you
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Unless I misunderstood you it seems you said;

Christ said He and the Father are one.

I read the same from you
MB

Jesus and the Father are one in essence, as whatever makes one God, they both have it equally!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Christ said He and the Father are one.

I have to give the Greek again, as the English is not clear, "εγω και ο πατηρ εν εσμεν", Here we have Jesus Christ as the Speaker, "I", in the 1st Person singular; and "The Father", in the 3rd Person singular. The Jesus says literally "WE Are", which is in the masculine, and plural in number. TWO Persons. Then we have "εν", which is the neuter, "One Being". It is impossible from this to conclude that Jesus Christ and the Father are One and the same "Person". One and the same "Being", as "God", yes.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have to give the Greek again, as the English is not clear, "εγω και ο πατηρ εν εσμεν", Here we have Jesus Christ as the Speaker, "I", in the 1st Person singular; and "The Father", in the 3rd Person singular. The Jesus says literally "WE Are", which is in the masculine, and plural in number. TWO Persons. Then we have "εν", which is the neuter, "One Being". It is impossible from this to conclude that Jesus Christ and the Father are One and the same "Person". One and the same "Being", as "God", yes.

Jesus was stating that he and the Father are both God, not that he is also the Father!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus was stating that he and the Father are both God, not that he is also the Father!

Indeed, as the use of the masculine plural "εσμεν", is clear to show distinction. Had Jesus used the masculine "εἶς" (one), instead of the netuer "εν", He could well have meant "we are One Person"! But He carefully avoids doing this.

 

[MB]

So you do not know what the Greek text says or means, and yet you keep stating stuff that seems to imply that Jesus is not fully God?

Not true at all Jesus and the Father are one God And the Holy Spirit is there Soirit

Interesting that JW say that absence of the article before Logos means that Jesus is not God, for there are several passages where in the Greek text the Father has no article before Theos, does that mean Father not fully God either?

John wrote as he did to show to us that Jesus is God, but that he is not the same person as the Father!

Show me where i indicated there is not a trinity. God the Father Jesus His son and the holy Spirit are altogether one God. If you believe you can explain this any better by all means do so
MB

 

[MB]

Jesus and the Father are one in essence, as whatever makes one God, they both have it equally!

Even above you describ God as essence which means;
"1. That which constitutes the particular nature of a being or substance, or of a genus, and which distinguishes it from all others."
This describes "one being"
MB

 

[MB]

I have to give the Greek again, as the English is not clear, "εγω και ο πατηρ εν εσμεν", Here we have Jesus Christ as the Speaker, "I", in the 1st Person singular; and "The Father", in the 3rd Person singular. The Jesus says literally "WE Are", which is in the masculine, and plural in number. TWO Persons. Then we have "εν", which is the neuter, "One Being". It is impossible from this to conclude that Jesus Christ and the Father are One and the same "Person". One and the same "Being", as "God", yes.

Complicating isn't it.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Indeed, as the use of the masculine plural "εσμεν", is clear to show distinction. Had Jesus used the masculine "εἶς" (one), instead of the netuer "εν", He could well have meant "we are One Person"! But He carefully avoids doing this.

This entire discussion shows why knowing the original languages will be useful, as they can highlight to us certain things not really fully clear in the English translations!

 

[Yeshua1]

Not true at all Jesus and the Father are one God And the Holy Spirit is there Soirit


Show me where i indicated there is not a trinity. God the Father Jesus His son and the holy Spirit are altogether one God. If you believe you can explain this any better by all means do so
MB

Who is the Holy Spirit to you?

 

[Yeshua1]

Even above you describ God as essence which means;
"1. That which constitutes the particular nature of a being or substance, or of a genus, and which distinguishes it from all others."
This describes "one being"
MB

Yes, One Being, and yet 3 persons!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Complicating isn't it.
MB

What do you find complicating? It is very clear to me

 

[Yeshua1]

What do you find complicating? It is very clear to me

Just wonder why so complicated to him in the English translation then?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Just wonder why so complicated to him in the English translation then?

Yes could be his theology?

 

[MB]

What do you find complicating? It is very clear to me

It is complicating because of understanding each other. Both of you seem to me to be saying there is no trinity. And from what I read from each of you. You seem to be saying the same of me. I'm trying to explain the trininty as I understand it. This is all three being the same God.The Father ,The Son and The holy Spirit are one God. Sort of like God has three Offices and is still just one God. This is hard to wrap your mind around. Never the less it is true.
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

Both of you seem to me to be saying there is no trinity

then you have failed to grasp what I have written.

 

[MB]

Yes, One Being, and yet 3 persons!

The word "person" indicates a separate being. And you say you understand it.
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

The word "person" indicates a separate being. And you say you understand it.
MB

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE BEING, but THREE DISTINCT PERSONS. Not to be confused with our human understanding.

 

[MB]

then you have failed to grasp what I have written.

Trying to put me in my place at the bottom I see.. This is why I question what you claim. I wonder how anyone can believe what you claim
Maybe you should have written it in Greek. If you are a Greek expert Then what professor ship do you hold? Do you have a degree in Biblical Greek? You act as if you know Biblical Greek as well as a translator of the scriptures. Why do other translators disagree with you In what the scriptures actually say? You certainly disagree with the KJV. Just what is it that makes your interpretation so accurate?.
You said in post 9

"God the Father and Jesus Christ are not the same Person, which is clear from verses like John 1:1,"

This tells me you do not believe in the trinity Did I fail to understand what you clearly said?
Actually you failed to explain what you are trying to say
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

Trying to put me in my place at the bottom I see.. This is why I question what you claim. I wonder how anyone can believe what you claim
Maybe you should have written it in Greek. If you are a Greek expert Then what professor ship do you hold? Do you have a degree in Biblical Greek? You act as if you know Biblical Greek as well as a translator of the scriptures. Why do other translators disagree with you In what the scriptures actually say? You certainly disagree with the KJV. Just what is it that makes your interpretation so accurate?.
You said in post 9



This tells me you do not believe in the trinity Did I fail to understand what you clearly said?
Actually you failed to explain what you are trying to say
MB

You are very confused in what you are trying to prove