Thats my experience from having visited about 15 different ones
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The errors in the Fundamentalist Movement
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
Thats my experience from having visited about 15 different ones
Are you saying that one must not drink or dance to enter heaven? Are you saying that what one does makes one favorable with God?
No, a person must believe on Jesus Christ to enter heaven.
But the scripture absolutely tell us to turn from worldly pleasures.
1 Jhn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
You do what you want to do, but don't put down folks who are trying to live a holy and godly life.
But you are going to look pretty silly if you are street preaching and someone says, Hey, I saw you drinking and dancing at the club last night!
Ok - 15 out of - say 20,000 IFB = .00075%
Next question - where they in the same geo area, or thurout the country?
I do not drink and dance at clubs or bars. I have danced but at Christian singles events and I prefer 1930's style dancing. Also I only would have a beverage in a social party, or at home watching TV. I make sure to guard my testimony, but also to enjoy liberty and not be bound by legalism.
Mostly in SC. However I have visited one in Virginia, 2 in California, and 1 in Colorado.
Oh, a nice church dance like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IFRQzUzb94
I love when the girl in blue pushes the big guy over!
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Seriously? As Salty pointed out, the 15 you've visited constitute less than 1% of IFB churches; does that qualify as "*most* IFB churches" to you?
DrJamesAch
New Member
So I see the "preacher 4 truth", the one who so readily denounces anyones spirituality who disagrees with him, condones drinking liquor! I learn more about your hypocrisy daily. I notice you didn't even have to look it up. Way to be spiritual and give a thumbs up to alcohol.
Jesus also condoned it, or else it was a sin when he turned the water in fine wine, was NOT welches grape Juice!
The drinking of alcohol NEVER forbidden in the bible, but sdrinking to excess/impairment definitely is!
Dude - when someone hijacks a thread to pursue a personal attack, just let it go.
Yeshua,
Never mind, my views on the use of intoxicants are well documented on the BB. There is no point in attempting to restate them.
It is enough to state that I strongly disagree with you about the Scriptures in this matter.
The Bible does forbid, condemn and warns those that only ones with no hope should abide in the world of the intoxicant.
You don't have that view.
I just post this response that others who read this thread can research the archives and see the "rest of the story."
Understand, was not attempting to"hijack" the thread, just wanted to address that specific point and move back!
Fundamentalists usually dismiss it as they say it was less than 1% alcoholic content. How does anyone argue with that assumption?
By pointing out that Noah got drunk. How much wine does it take, with less than 1% alcoholic content, to get drunk?
But that's not what this thread is about. Or maybe it's one aspect. But I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think the 15 IFB churches you personally visited equates to "most" IFB churches when Salty has pointed out that your 15 account for less than 1% of IFB churches....
Man... This is insane.
1) Easy Believism isn't limited to IFB, be serious, its a problem across all denominations. Baptists don't have a market on it. The sign your card thing has been EVERYWHERE! Now if we are going to hone in on Baptists you may notice a different in their Gospel message because Baptist Sotieriolgy doesn't focus on washing yourself before you cry out to God as the message of Lordship Salvation can come across, not to mention the idea that only those some how specially selected are even saved!
Acts 16:30-31
"30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
When we humble ourselves towards God, TRUE humility and Believe in Jesus, that causes repentance, the Change of heart and desires. A lot of old school preachers did ending prayers ("Jesus come into my life cleanse me of my sins...") to close their sermons. I think they had good genuine intentions and reasons too, and Ive never heard them say "now you are saved" (only ever had Joel Osteen the wolf in some cheap wool clothing say that) it was a general direction for that person, and a reliance on God to work on their Heart or not depending on how that person responded with a humble heart or not.
2) Alcohol: Why would you even bother. A lot of people call this adiaphora (non-essential) items. But let me ask you this, why even bother? I could see at the maximum, the sacriments being done with wine. Even then, why? Why would you try to be more like the culture? We are to be different, we have the highest calling, to be ambassadors for the God who sits above all of creation and with the least amount of effort in a breath could wipe us all out. We should be above reproach, in our dress, in our actions, in how we conduct ourselves. We should not mimic the culture, We should be in the trenches saving people, and anyone who runs into hell should have hurdles of men to jump over trying to stop them, but we do not make refuge or solace in these places. As that is a war zone, not a home.
1) Easy Believism isn't limited to IFB, be serious, its a problem across all denominations. Baptists don't have a market on it. The sign your card thing has been EVERYWHERE! Now if we are going to hone in on Baptists you may notice a different in their Gospel message because Baptist Sotieriolgy doesn't focus on washing yourself before you cry out to God as the message of Lordship Salvation can come across, not to mention the idea that only those some how specially selected are even saved!
Acts 16:30-31
"30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
When we humble ourselves towards God, TRUE humility and Believe in Jesus, that causes repentance, the Change of heart and desires. A lot of old school preachers did ending prayers ("Jesus come into my life cleanse me of my sins...") to close their sermons. I think they had good genuine intentions and reasons too, and Ive never heard them say "now you are saved" (only ever had Joel Osteen the wolf in some cheap wool clothing say that) it was a general direction for that person, and a reliance on God to work on their Heart or not depending on how that person responded with a humble heart or not.
2) Alcohol: Why would you even bother. A lot of people call this adiaphora (non-essential) items. But let me ask you this, why even bother? I could see at the maximum, the sacriments being done with wine. Even then, why? Why would you try to be more like the culture? We are to be different, we have the highest calling, to be ambassadors for the God who sits above all of creation and with the least amount of effort in a breath could wipe us all out. We should be above reproach, in our dress, in our actions, in how we conduct ourselves. We should not mimic the culture, We should be in the trenches saving people, and anyone who runs into hell should have hurdles of men to jump over trying to stop them, but we do not make refuge or solace in these places. As that is a war zone, not a home.
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Okay then why bother eating candy and going to restaurants? Why bother owning a TV, and watching movies? The issue is not the movies, nor the alcohol. The issue is how we control and handle ourselves, and if we let those things impact our ministry.
This post needs to be responded, too.
Intoxicants cannot help BUT impact the ministry!
Especially if you are a fundamental Baptist which, as an organization, has the reputation of being against alcoholic intake.
Many years ago, I was the member of Miller Road Baptist and new a member that had been remarkably saved and freed from alcoholism.
I heard his own testimony (as verified by others) that he would go back to his former friends, apologize for his former living style, and literally compel them to come hear the gospel. Many did, and I met some that had come to Christ because this man brought them.
I get tickled thinking about how he related the story of when he was saved he was so excited that he immediately wanted to give an offering to the Lord. Having just gotten up from the altar expressing this joy of salvation and desire to give to the pastor, and the pastor said, "Well, if you want a good place to start, you can begin by giving a tenth." The man excitedly interrupted, "I don't have a tenth, but I got a fifth behind the seat of the truck."
It was a great privilege to see the transformed life living for Christ!
But let me tell you, what a sad disappointment it can be to see a believer drinking in a restaurant.
I was sitting near the kitchen when a family came in. They were ushered to the table, and asked what they wanted to drink. The waitress then brought their drink and took the food order. When the food was delivered, the waitress noticed that the family joined hands and prayed. She went into the kitchen and I overheard her derisively mocking the family and the religion that doesn't change lives.
Tell me which had a true living testimony?
The tiniest part of an intoxicant has as its goal and desire to impair and distort. That is why it is called an intoxicant.
Sin NEVER lets one in on the binding but well hides the shackles until bound. Until then, one just finds whatever excuse the enemy can offer that permits.
BTW, if you placed grape juice in a skin jug and it shook for 80 some days in the sauna of the ark, you would find it well seasoned and bitter from the natural yeast processes. Of course Noah got drunk drinking it! And look what it got him. Disgrace, shame, and ruined testimony - same as today when a believer drinks.
Now, back to the original OP.
This needs a response.
Gen 9: 20 And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. 21 Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent.
Noah did not drink 80 day old grape juice!
Now, back to the original OP.
Ah,
You are so correct. I forgot that he farmed.
It doesn't change the general condemnation of intoxicants. Noah's drinking habits do not excuse the believer.