The theological term "irresistable grace " has been around before we were born. If you were so keen to discuss the topic.....the least you could do is do some homework and see the historical facts...do I have to do it for you?
1._____
Those whom God hath predestinated unto life,
2]
he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time,
3]
effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit,
4]
out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature,
5]
to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ;
6]
enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God;
7]
taking away their heart of stone,
8]
and giving unto them a heart of flesh;
9]
renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good,
10
and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ;
11]
yet so as they come most freely,
12]
being made willing by his grace.
( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )
PT...take note...12 actions are listed....God is the one doing these things and effecting change.
No where is the man centered language of{
meaning man chooses to accept God's grace} found in the statement, because it is not found in scripture!
These men derived this statement from the scriptures listed. I stand with them, I stand with the scriptural language......It is not a philosophical discussion at all....but scriptural
here is the scriptural truth on this:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace,
wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Paul is discussing our election and effectual calling said it this way in verse 6
wherein He hath made us...
accepted in the beloved
The Father accepts the work of the Son......WE ARE ACCEPTED IN HIM.
that is the only question...are we still in Adam...or In Christ.
2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone,
not from anything at all foreseen in man,
nor from any power or agency in the creature,
being wholly passive therein,
being dead in sins and trespasses,
until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit;
he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it,
and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )
But you guys say man has absolutely no input in the process.
Correct and this has just been explained to you.....the hymn says...
nothing in my hands I bring....simply to the cross I cling....
Once God saves us and regenerates us as described by all these points highlighted by the confession of faith.....then.....He works IN US to will and to do of His good pleasure....we become joyful laborers in the Kingdom work.
Yet if something ultimately does not resist, that means it has to give in. If you want to couch this argument as God's grace having to break through man's stubborn will, then you have weakened God.
PT... I am not totally sure what you mean by this.....let me answer it this way....turn in your bible to Isa.6......ask yourself....did Isaiah "accept anything" or was it no contest....you are God ...I am not ...have mercy upon me, I am a man of unclean lips.....
No vain boasting about I have faith, I accept this or that, I am going to make a choice now....
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
here is saul in acts 9.....was he accepting anything?
And Saul,
yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women,
he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And
he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city,
and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man
He accepted nothing...he was crushed...and begged ...what would you have me to do?
Otherwise, you admit that man must inevitably choose to accept the grace offered.
I will not knowingly admit to the unscriptural.
Or, you can go back to the definition that DHK, myself, and every other non-
Calvinist I know relies on, which is that God forces His grace upon the Elect, seeing as the fully monergistic position cannot allow man to accept God.
I offer you that which has been made known to me...I would not turn from that to broken cisterns of carnal philosophy which can hold no water.:thumbs:
Pt...could you answer this for me?
want to get back to something you said, I am in the back of a restaurant at the truckstop, I have a pulled muscle in my back, now that I have gotten back down to Alabama. a person I was talking to told me they would be right back.. A pit bull forced me back into a corner. I hope you get back to me soon on this.
Now PT....give me a one sentence definition of the word....BACK. in the last paragraph.....what does the word mean?
Then tell me how the words world and all are not the same???
