The Evidence is in....Hillary is not a Christian

[Crabtownboy]

But the subject is not about repentance, discipline, discipleship and grace without the cross or grace without Jesus Christ. I don't know why the "cheap grace" argument rises up when Christians begin a discussion about "works".

Keep studying, thinking, reading and praying.

Your works show your faith. If there are no works there is no living faith. No works is simply part of the cheap grace preached in most churches. Study the life of Christ and his teachings. Jesus said, "Take up your cross" [Matthew 24:16] How can you take up your cross by sitting and doing nothing. With no works there was no taking up of your cross.

Matthew 10:38 and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple.

John 21:19 Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!"

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps:

The final judgement as recorded in Matthew:

Matthew 25:31-46, New American Bible translation

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32 and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’
40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 A stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
44 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’
46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Note: The final judgement never mentions faith. Why? Because the sheep exhibit living faith and costly grace and the goats exhibit cheap dead faith and cheap grace.

 

[Alcott]

".... it is grace because Jesus says: 'My yoke is easy and my burden is light.'"

If you hire someone and tell them they're going to get their pay whether they work hard or whether they take it "light and easy," and they choose the latter, how is that not cheap? And why do you go beyond that and advocate public welfare, which, like the cross, comes cheap for the recipient but not for the producers involved?

 

[Zaac]

If it bothered them, they would have reported it in short order.

Just a stupid statement.[emoji53]

I have known many that were sexually assaulted, and one does not wait fifty years to report it and get help. It should have been reported the next day.

Good grief Charlie Brown. Have you lost it? One can wait as long as one wants to and feels ready to deal with it.[emoji6]

As far as the other crimes we know Hillary has committed perjury and treason from Benghazi and the email scandal alone. Also based on the number of deaths associated with the Clintons in the 90s, and Benghazi, it is almost certain she is guilty of murder.

Interesting how you and others seem to"know" more than the folks who actually did the investigations and came up with nothing.[emoji57]

While I do not condone the language and actions of Donald Trump in the past towards women, it is better than Hillary Clinton, which is nothing but pure evil.

Just another reason why the GOP will lose and lose BIG!!!


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[Don]

I agree with the Bible.

I do not believe in cheap grace.

I do believe in costly grace.

Bonhoeffer put it best:

From:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cost_of_Discipleship

"cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ."

"costly grace confronts us as a gracious call to follow Jesus, it comes as a word of forgiveness to the broken spirit and the contrite heart. It is costly because it compels a man to submit to the yoke of Christ and follow him; it is grace because Jesus says: 'My yoke is easy and my burden is light.'"

All of us here believe the Bible.

But you're not clarifying. Does salvation require works, or are works because of salvation? Ms. Clinton made it clear that she believes works AND faith are both required for salvation; do you agree?

 

[HankD]

Your question implies a gross misunderstanding of the relationship between faith and works. Works before salvation is worthless. Salvation is by grace through faith. After salvation, good works come as a byproduct, nothing to do with salvation, except no works is a sign there was no coming to salvation.

As far as candidates are concerned, a person guilty of treason, perjury and murder with no Godly remorse is generally not saved. My sense is Hillary could not be brought to salvation ever. She is wrapped up in power and worldly things, aside from being a common criminal.

I do not like Donald Trump's language, but this is a diamond in the rough that God can work on. I look at the poll numbers and it looks hopeless. In my state, Hillary is polling in the 20s. We march to a different drummer than most of the rest of the nation. If God gives the USA the mercy we do not deserve, Donald will win. If God chooses not to extend mercy, Hillary will win. Let her get elected with a Democrat Congress and a godless Supreme Court and see what happen.

Right you are TAD. Unless there is divine intervention Hillary will win because of the majority Marxist press support and the Saul Alinsky strategy and tactics which prevail everywhere for Mrs. Clinton in the media and social blogs.

Do a Google on "Saul Alinsky" (Rules for Radicals, Silent Revolution). You don't need to buy the books just look for an iteration of his "rules" for radicals on the internet and you will quickly learn who are his devotees and worshipers.


HankD

 

[Crabtownboy]

All of us here believe the Bible.

But you're not clarifying. Does salvation require works, or are works because of salvation? Ms. Clinton made it clear that she believes works AND faith are both required for salvation; do you agree?

Works are manifestations of faith. If there are no works there is no living faith. How can you say you have faith if it shows nothing in your life?

I said that before. I say it now. I'd think you would understand.

What does the last judgment in Matthew show you?

 

[HankD]

From what she said it is unclear. So in all fairness she should be given a chance to clarify.

Might want to ask her if an abortion would be one of those "good works" which are part of a "living faith".

HankD

 

[steaver]

Your works show your faith.

So what is your beef Crabby? Every born of God believer has good works. Are you going to preach to a born again believer that they must have good works or be damned? And how many good works? And what if you die on a day that you did no good works? Or in an hour or moment that you have no good works going on?

 

[Crabtownboy]

From what she said it is unclear. So in all fairness she should be given a chance to clarify.

Might want to ask her if an abortion would be one of those "good works" which are part of a "living faith".

HankD

Hank, if there is a medical situation where it is known the baby and the mother will die if an abortion is not done, is it a good work or an evil work to have an abortion and save the mother's life?

Hank, here is an example I found quite by chance after posting the paragraph above will reading news about the election.

From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mormon-mom-abortion-donald-trump_us_580a565ce4b000d0b1566cf0

At about 22 weeks pregnant, Draper was in danger, and so were her unborn children. The mom, who was then 40 years old, had six kids at home. In her heart wrenching Facebook post, she wrote that she was pregnant with twins, one of whom passed away in her womb, and the other had severe spina bifida and would have only lived with life support and in great pain for a few days. Her health was in jeopardy and she had to think about the children she was already a mom to.

Draper and her husband consulted with her doctors, and her local LDS bishop before making the very difficult choice.

In her own words:

I lay on the hospital floor, bawling hysterically, for twelve hours, waiting for an ethics committee of the health care corporation to decide my case justified what had to be done. My health was in danger due to the dead fetus. My husband and I consulted our LDS Bishop, who assured me I needed to do what I had to do, that it was even within LDS guidelines to do so. He reminded me I had six kids (a blended family) at home who needed their mother to live.

The abortion was terrible. It was done very gently, by Caesarean section, leaving the babies in their amniotic sacs. The living baby passed very quickly.

It was horrific. I think it even affected my dear physician, as he had never had to end a pregnancy before. I developed PTSD for which I had to be treated for years, mostly because of the fact I had to have it at all.

No woman should have to have the state have a say in the most painful decision she will ever make. Nobody is tearing babies apart in late term. They are always humanely done, only in situations where there is a non-viable or severely defective fetus and/or the mother’s health is at risk.

 

[Crabtownboy]

[QUOTE="steaver, post: 2262335, member: 4861" Every born of God believer has good works.[/QUOTE]

Read my previous answers.

 

[steaver]

Hank, if there is a medical situation where it is known the baby and the mother will die if an abortion is not done, is it a good work or an evil work to have an abortion and save the mother's life?

The premise is "where it is known". God is let out of the situation. Only God knows for certain.Murdering one to save another is ALWAYS an evil work.

 

[steaver]

[QUOTE="steaver, post: 2262335, member: 4861" Every born of God believer has good works.

Read my previous answers. [/QUOTE]
Well that is the problem. In one post you will agree works does not save. then you will make another post implying they do.

 

[steaver]

No woman should have to have the state have a say in the most painful decision she will ever make.

When did God give women and men the ok to kill another human being? I must have missed that in the scriptures.

 

[HankD]

Hank, if there is a medical situation where it is known the baby and the mother will die if an abortion is not done, is it a good work or an evil work to have an abortion and save the mother's life?

Hank, here is an example I found quite by chance after posting the paragraph above will reading news about the election.

From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mormon-mom-abortion-donald-trump_us_580a565ce4b000d0b1566cf0

At about 22 weeks pregnant, Draper was in danger, and so were her unborn children. The mom, who was then 40 years old, had six kids at home. In her heart wrenching Facebook post, she wrote that she was pregnant with twins, one of whom passed away in her womb, and the other had severe spina bifida and would have only lived with life support and in great pain for a few days. Her health was in jeopardy and she had to think about the children she was already a mom to.

Draper and her husband consulted with her doctors, and her local LDS bishop before making the very difficult choice.

In her own words:

I lay on the hospital floor, bawling hysterically, for twelve hours, waiting for an ethics committee of the health care corporation to decide my case justified what had to be done. My health was in danger due to the dead fetus. My husband and I consulted our LDS Bishop, who assured me I needed to do what I had to do, that it was even within LDS guidelines to do so. He reminded me I had six kids (a blended family) at home who needed their mother to live.

The abortion was terrible. It was done very gently, by Caesarean section, leaving the babies in their amniotic sacs. The living baby passed very quickly.

It was horrific. I think it even affected my dear physician, as he had never had to end a pregnancy before. I developed PTSD for which I had to be treated for years, mostly because of the fact I had to have it at all.

No woman should have to have the state have a say in the most painful decision she will ever make. Nobody is tearing babies apart in late term. They are always humanely done, only in situations where there is a non-viable or severely defective fetus and/or the mother’s health is at risk.

A smoke screen CTB.

Even before Roe vs Wade there were allowances and other varying exceptions (i.e. rape, incest) in some states and the threat to the life of the mother (i.e. hemorrhaging) in all states.

Hillary supports abortion for reasons other than the jeopardy of the life of the mother so the question can be rephrased to qualify the inquiry. This is why I did not say "partial birth abortion".

She is however on record as saying "The unborn person has no constitutional rights".

That's political conservatism as opposed to biblical conservatism but it is Hillary who's talking about faith and works confounding the two concepts of politics and the Bible.

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/04/03/...orn-person-doesnt-have-constitutional-rights/

Might want to ask her if an abortion of a healthy "person" (her word) in the womb, not a threat to the mother's life, not the result of rape or incest would be one of those "good works" which are part of her view of a "living faith".


HankD

 

[Don]

Works are manifestations of faith. If there are no works there is no living faith. How can you say you have faith if it shows nothing in your life?

I said that before. I say it now. I'd think you would understand.

What does the last judgment in Matthew show you?

Your continuing lack to answer the simple question--do you agree with Hillary--is the answer we've been asking for.

You won't directly answer the question, because--by your own words--you'd have to say no, you don't agree with her.

Here's the silly thing about this: you don't have to agree 100% with Hillary. Baptist Believer definitely doesn't, and has publicly declared it; but he's still voting for her anyway.

You, on the other hand, look for ways to spin things rather than admit you don't agree on this one thing, but are still going to vote for her anyway.

 

[777]

"One can wait as long as they like" to report a crime but when one doesn't, it's a red flag and makes the crime much more difficult to prosecute. A direct line to Hillary's people:

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 11:25 AM

To: Vaughn, Jordan

Subject: RE: Blast Language - Approval Needed

Please delete the word “fellow”. Also, his position on equal pay is unclear. I think you should delete that. Is there anything you can substitute for that, e.g. demeaning treatment of women in the work place or sexual harassment in the work place?

As for the Mormon and the abortion, doesn't sound like it was a partial birth abortion and it was an exception to the rule:

http://liveactionnews.org/washington-post-gets-fact-check-on-trumps-9-month-abortion-answer-wrong/

I had a friend in school that was an interpreter for the state. Once she got sent to a PP clinic to do it for some woman having an abortion at 22 weeks. She sat there and watched the quack pull out an arm, a leg, the torso and that experience alone made her pro-life forever.

 

[Zaac]

The premise is "where it is known". God is let out of the situation. Only God knows for certain.Murdering one to save another is ALWAYS an evil work.

So now the folks who want to leave God out of their politics want to bring Him back in for abortion?

No wonder lost people speak so fondly of church folk being hypocrites.

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[HankD]

steaver, Personally and FWIW I have never put God out of any part of my life - He is LORD of my life - though I'm not perfect - But He never leaves me and has been with me since my salvation when after 2 years in the USAF my life was turned upside down.

He comes with me everywhere including the voting booth (well we here in the People's Republic of WA [very very red state] in my county (Mason) now must fill out a vote ballot and send it in).

HankD

 

[The American Dream]

Just a stupid statement.[emoji53] I do not make stupid statements and do not appreciate your slurs. It shows a person with limited vocabulary and no ability to think critically. It would have been much better to say, "I do not agree with that statement" and then state why, instead of a 3rd grade response.


Good grief Charlie Brown. Have you lost it? One can wait as long as one wants to and feels ready to deal with it.[emoji6]
My name is not Charlie Brown. No I have not lost it. So if someone drains your bank accounts dry tomorrow, are you going to wait 10 years to report it? Well, on second thought, and wait for the income Hillary will redistribute enough to come your way.


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[Zaac]

Well you certainly might not THINK you make stupid statements, but you certainly did.

There was no slur. If you don't appreciate your statements being called stupid, then stop making stupid statements.

Just because a woman didn't come forward right after being assaulted doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted.

What it shows is my ability to recognize ridiculously stupid statements.

You're the one who made the stupid statement about the women and their response time. Don't tell me anything about no ability to think critically while you're demonstrating an inability to think at all.

Your statement was stupidly offensive to every woman who has ever been assaulted and scared to come forward for whatever reason.

I didn't say your name was Charlie Brown.

And attempting to make an equivalency out of being sexually assaulted and someone stealing your money is ANOTHER stupid statement.

Stop putting your foot in your mouth and then acting like that's where feet are supposed to be.

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