The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

[robycop3]

The Church was lost and without a shepherd for 1,800 years until the Great Prophet, Ellen G White came to rescue it. With secret knowledge that no one, not even the Apostles, knew, after she went into trances she came out with everything a person needs for life and godliness. No! No the Bible. Not the simple gospel of Christ. No. That's far too easy. She, in her great gift to mankind, gave us 30,000 pages of material that explain what God couldn't in 1,200.

All of the people who thought that they were Christians prior to Ellen Whites writings were sadly mistaken. They didn't have the secret knowledge which is now in the hands of the faithful few - the SDA.

And I'm sure she influenced those great paragons of worship, Joey Smith & Charles Taze Russell. But her greatest accomplishment was being able to stroll into her local Wal-Mart & set over a hundred alarm clox to go off at different times.

 

[robycop3]

Hi robycop3.

Let me look at these with you.

Where is satan and all of the wicked burning in the lake of fire in Revelation 20?

Revelation 20:8 KJB - And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9 KJB - And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

Where will God create a New Heavens and New Earth?

Scripture cannot be broken [John 10:35 KJB], I know you surely agree?

What are "smoke" and "ashes" which is what the fire reduces the wicked to?

Who is the "covering cherub" that was "perfect" in the day that they were "created" of Ezekiel 28:12-16 KJB?

Ezekiel 28:18 KJB - Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:19 KJB - All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
​

How does the Bible use the phrase "for ever and ever" [does it always mean eternally, or does it also deal with unspecified time, limited time, and great distance], and in regards the wicked?

Are you saying that the devil was correct in Eden, that all the wicked, including himself would exist forever?

Revelation 20:13 KJB - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.​

Do all wicked then receive the same judgment of eternal tormenting forever, in unending agonies? If so, how is that just of God, doleing out the same eternal length to all equally, from lowest sinner to satan?

Are you saying that God must sustain these sinners in this fire forever and ever?

Revelation 20:10, deals with an unspecifed, but lengthy [limited, for sin has a limit, James 1:15 KJB] time [satan burns the longest, having the greatest crimes], and no relief in the punishment, which will continue through the daytime and the nighttime, until the wages for sin takes place, "... shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The issue, is how the Bible defines "for ever and ever", and in how the Bible speaks in several other places about the final state of the devil and the wicked, and in how the Bible speaks about the character and loving justice of God.

If you simply are going to insist that when the Bible says "for ever and ever" it always means eternal, unending, without a whole Bible study on such a phrase and words, then I can say no more.

... next ...​

While I don't use the KJV (NOT "KJB"!) too much, we see Rev. 20:10 rendered likewise in virtually every valid English translation. The Greek rendered "for ever & ever' is "eis aion aion", which virtually every legitimate Koine greek translator sez means "for ever & ever",

Besides, the verse also sez "where the beast & the false prophet ARE". They will have been cast there 1k years before Satan will be.

Scripture does not contradict itself. Your KJV sez "for ever and ever", same as does the NIV, which most KJVOs detest. I believe all those translators over the years know a little more about Koine greek than we do.

But anyway, I don't plan on going to gehenna to find out!

And meanwhile, I'll still declare annihilation is a false doctrine!

 

[One Baptism]

... And meanwhile, I'll still declare annihilation is a false doctrine!

As you will. I no longer need to be in this thread then, for it was "closed" before it ever began. Thank you for responding as you have.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Church was lost and without a shepherd for 1,800 years until the Great Prophet, Ellen G White came to rescue it. With secret knowledge that no one, not even the Apostles, knew, after she went into trances she came out with everything a person needs for life and godliness. No! No the Bible. Not the simple gospel of Christ. No. That's far too easy. She, in her great gift to mankind, gave us 30,000 pages of material that explain what God couldn't in 1,200.

All of the people who thought that they were Christians prior to Ellen Whites writings were sadly mistaken. They didn't have the secret knowledge which is now in the hands of the faithful few - the SDA.

The problem is that Rome. JW/Mormons /Sda ALL claimed to be only true Church, only real Prophets/Apostles, whose is right here?

 

[Yeshua1]

You are a Baptist, right, why then not go back to your own heritage, and leave Roman doctrine behind?

Samuel Richardson (1633-1658)

Pastor, First Particular Baptist Church, of London wrote a discourse entitled :

"A Discourse on the Torments of Hell : The Foundations and Pillars therof discover'd, serch'd, shaken, and remov'd. With Infallible Proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, for any to endure that shall never end" 1658 [see also Page 70 here, right hand top Column] - A Baptist Bibliography​

Modern era:

"... annihilationists come from and are part of any number of different denominations. ...

... E. Earle Ellis was a professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (Southern Baptist Convention) until he fell asleep. Similarly, Dale Moody taught at Southern Baptist Seminary (also SBC). I bet you never thought conservative Southern Baptists would hold this view! Claude Mariottini, Old Testament professor at Northern Baptist Seminary (American Baptist Convention), is also an annihilationist, 7 ..." - Don’t Be Afraid to Rethink Hell: Why Other Beliefs Needn’t Get In Your Way​

"... I was a few weeks into the research when I read an article by a renown Southern Baptist New Testament scholar named E. Earle Ellis titled “The New Testament Teaching on Hell.” In it, he argued fairly and thoroughly that the New Testament advocates for an annihilation view of hell. This caught me off guard; I didn’t know he was going to argue for this. I read the article very casually, thinking it was going to be yet another defense of the traditional view. After all, Ellis is Southern Baptist. He’s evangelical. And he didn’t front his view at the beginning. He simply looked at all the relevant passages, exegeted them (with the exegetical methods I was taught in seminary), and then concluded that hell would not last forever; that is, its inhabitants would not experience everlasting conscious torment. And Ellis argued this from the text. ..." - Is Annihilation an Evangelical Option?​

E. Earle Ellis ; New Testament Teaching on Hell - Rethinking Hell

General Baptists In his "Institutes of Ecclesiastical History" chancellor of the University of Gottingen, Johann L. von Mosheim records that the "General Baptists" where spread in large numbers over many of the provinces of England As one article of faith they held:

"that the soul, between death and the resurrection at the last day, has neither pleasure nor pain, but is in a state of insensibility." - [see Page 697] Mosheim's Institutes of Ecclesiastical History, Ancient and Modern​

The problem for you is that Jesus and Paul both saw an eternal Hell, but you stick with the teachings of your flase prophetess

 

[Adonia]

The problem is that Rome. JW/Mormons /Sda ALL claimed to be only true Church, only real Prophets/Apostles, whose is right here?

The Church that has been around for over 2000 years which was started by Jesus Christ. The One Universal (Catholic) Apostolic Church, the one that was recognized by all Christendom. The one that was rejected by others, first during the Great Schism between East and West, then a heretical priest named Luther, and then all the others that split from him. It's all in the historical record my friend. Seek and ye shall find!

(The others you mentioned did not come about until sometime in the 1800's, so it certainly is not them).

 

[utilyan]

The Church that has been around for over 2000 years which was started by Jesus Christ. The One Universal (Catholic) Apostolic Church, the one that was recognized by all Christendom. The one that was rejected by others, first during the Great Schism between East and West, then a heretical priest named Luther, and then all the others that split from him. It's all in the historical record my friend. Seek and ye shall find!

(The others you mentioned did not come about until sometime in the 1800's, so it certainly is not them).

Your wrong buddy!

Recently new clay jars have been unearthed in Wakanda, Africa. The "Dumb Bum Scrolls" Historicly tells when the Catholics broke off the Baptist church around the Year 218 AD the ancient Southern Orthodox Baptist Pastor Billy Bob of Mississippi, USA was in Jerusalem alarmed at the sudden rise of these New heretics known as Catholics just up and popped out the mud, and were quickly condemned as heretics.

 

[robycop3]

As you will. I no longer need to be in this thread then, for it was "closed" before it ever began. Thank you for responding as you have.

YOUR decision!

God also said:

Isaiah 66: 24“Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

And, in Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, 44 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, 46 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

Remember, Jesus talked about hell much-more than He did heaven. And NOWHERE in His recorded word did he say the souls of the wicked would be annihilated. That's just a cultic notion used to re-assure those who reject Jesus their final "fate" won't be so uncomfortable after all.

 

[robycop3]

The Church that has been around for over 2000 years which was started by Jesus Christ. The One Universal (Catholic) Apostolic Church, the one that was recognized by all Christendom. The one that was rejected by others, first during the Great Schism between East and West, then a heretical priest named Luther, and then all the others that split from him. It's all in the historical record my friend. Seek and ye shall find!

(The others you mentioned did not come about until sometime in the 1800's, so it certainly is not them).

No, THAT church, the RCC, was begin by some Nicolaitans who wanted to "lord it over" their fellow Christians. It soon degenerated into "mystery, Babylon", complete with popes, cardinals, celibate clergy, queen of heaven, saints made by other people, purgatory, indulgences, prayers to the dead, & other practices of the religion begun by Nimrod & Semiramis, with some practices of the worshippers of Baal/Bel thrown in.

"Having a FORM of godliness, but denying its power"

 

[robycop3]

So, bearing in mind that Scripture doesn't contradict itself, whom do YOU chooseta believe? The SAD officials and EGW,(along with Arnold Murray, Herbert Armstrong, etc.) who claim the souls of the wicked will be annihilated, or GOD'S WORD, which says hell is eternal?

 

[robycop3]

From EGW herself...

“The heresy of Eternal Torment

Untold evil has come from the heresy of eternal torment. It takes the religion of the Bible, so full of love and goodness, darkens it by superstition and clothes it with terror. Satan has painted the character of God in false colors, making people fear, dread, and even hate our merciful Creator. The repulsive views of God that have spread over the world from the teachings of the pulpit have made millions of people skeptics and unbelievers.

Eternal torment is one of the false doctrines, the wine of abomination (revelation 14:8, 17:2), which Babylon makes all nations drink. Ministers of Christ accepted this heresy from Rome, just as they received the false sabbath...”

SOURCE: Ellen G. White, “THE GREAT HOPE,” pg. 28; Pacific Press Publishing Association; Nampa, Idaho; ISBN:978-082-802-6765

 

[One Baptism]

... The Greek rendered "for ever & ever' is "eis aion aion" ...

The Koine Greek of the text actually reads thus in the GNT TR:

Revelation 20:10 GNT TR - "... εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων ..."
​

Transliterated into English letters: "... [h]eis touS aiwnaS twn aiwnwn ..." [whereas "w" is transliterated Greek "o-mega", and "S" being a final ending 's'], reading a very harsh literal, 'into the [or that] aeon [of] the aeon', which carries the meaning of the English word - "throughout" [being continuous, without reprieve], or 'period to period', 'age to age', 'moment to moment', 'epoch to epoch', 'era to era', etc. When connected with the words "ημερας και νυκτος" [day and night], it means that the devil/satan will suffer in his torments/punishment [as his works, according to his deeds, etc, shall he be punished] continuously throughout day and night, on this earth, without relief, until he is smoke and ashes, as per texts already cited. He is not an eternal being, and never will be, and God will never sustain such a being through all eternity, especially in endless suffering, it is against His very character of Justice, Mercy and Love.

Again, it is not the words or the translation of "for ever and ever" [they're perfect] [in any such translation, you could list 100 such same translations, it doesn't matter, that is not the issue, the words are perfectly fine, and I agree with them, and the argument is not about the 'beast' or the 'false prophet', I already agree about their position and where they were during the 1,000 years [a limited time, for this world and all wickedness and sinners will pass away], etc], but [the issue is] what the words mean scripturally [KJB]. God gave the words, and thus gets to define the words, for God knows what they mean and what is intended to convey by giving them, and even ties the word "devoured" in the previous verse [9]. The very next verse after 20:15 KJB is:

Revelation 21:1 KJB - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
​

My question remains. Where is the devil, and all of the finally impenitent when they receive their fiery punishment? Where? Will there be any "place" found for the wicked in the New Heavens and New Earth?

Are you saying that the words, "forever and ever" in scripture [KJB], always means unending, having no time limit whatsoever? What if I show you other meanings, and other times [than eternal] from the same book?

 

[thatbrian]

The problem is that Rome. JW/Mormons /Sda ALL claimed to be only true Church, only real Prophets/Apostles, whose is right here?

Since their teachings are all unbiblical, they need other sources to trump the Bible. Rome has the pope. Mormons have Joeseph Smith, and SDs have Ellen G White.

The true Church is the one with the true gospel. All of the above-mentioned organizations blend cocktails of law and gospel, which is no gospel at all.

None of the above systems have need of a Christ, as they are all just restatements of the Law, which we already had prior to Christ.

 

[One Baptism]

YOUR decision!

God also said:

Isaiah 66: 24“Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

And, in Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, 44 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, 46 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

Remember, Jesus talked about hell much-more than He did heaven. And NOWHERE in His recorded word did he say the souls of the wicked would be annihilated. That's just a cultic notion used to re-assure those who reject Jesus their final "fate" won't be so uncomfortable after all.

Yes, Jesus spoke about Hell, for if God had not told us, we would have no knowledge of it. The topic is not the existence of Hell/Hellfire, Lake of Fire, but its duration.

“Their Worm Dieth Not”

The phrase, “their worm dieth not” is found in the following verses of the Gospel of Mark, in the New Testament [KJB]:

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.​

Jesus, in the Gospel of Mark in the NT, is quoting from the OT, in the prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.​

How do we then understand the phrase, “their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched”?

In order to understand the phrase, “their worm dieth not”, etc., we need to read them in their immediate contexts, prayerfully, first, and compare each phrase with the surrounding verses and then also compare it to the whole of the Bible [as per Genesis 40:8; Isaiah 28:10,13; 1 Corinthians 2:3 KJB] in the same subject, asking Jesus what they mean; and He, by the Holy Spirit, will explain them.

The parallel passages of Mark 9:44,46,48 KJB are:

Mark 9:43 KJB - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:45 KJB - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:47 KJB - And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:​

First of all, the verses speak of “Where ...”, in reference to a specific location, as seen in the previous verses, wherein it names the place, “go into hell”, “cast into hell”, “hellfire”. [Which burns upon this present earth, see Revelation 20]

Therefore, notice that Jesus, while quoting from Isaiah 66:24 KJB, repeats Himself several times, defining for us, so that we understand what He is saying:

Mark 9:43 KJB - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:45 KJB - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:47 KJB - And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.​

Please also notice the contrast between:

[1] “enter into life” [being Eternal Life, Heaven and the Kingdom of God], and,

[2] “go into [or 'cast into'] hell” [being eternal death, wherein there is no resurrection, nor life ever again, but only a dying by fire until one is forever dead and gone].​

Please also notice, Mark 9:49-50 KJB, in that all [everyone, good or evil] will be salted with “fire” [1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJB; either by the [1] Holy Ghost [Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:16 KJB], or [2] Hellfire]:

Mark 9:49 KJB - For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Mark 9:50 KJB - Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.​

Compare these to:

Matthew 5:13 KJB - Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.​

Compare “cast out”, and “trodden under foot of men” to:

Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Malachi 4:1 KJB - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:2 KJB - But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Malachi 4:3 KJB - And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Luke 14:34 KJB - Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

Luke 14:35 KJB - It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.​

Therefore the “worm dieth not”, deals with “hell” portion, which is also tied to “the fire is not quenched”, or the “[hell] fire” portion, which will take place at the end of the final phase of Judgment - the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15 KJB.

... to be continued ...

 

[One Baptism]

... Isaiah 66: ... And, in Mark 9:43 ...

... continued ...

Side note, for those who enjoy looking into the Koine Greek of some portion of text [not myself particularly, as scripture [KJB] is to be defined “line upon line”, not Hebrew upon Hebrew, nor Greek upon Greek, etc.]

G4663

Koine Greek: σκώληξ

Transliterated: skōlēx

Translated into King James Bible English, as:

“worm”, 3x, Mark 9:44,46,48 KJB​

See also the (so-called) LXX [Septuagint, actually the gnostic Origen's Greek translation of the OT]:

Exodus 16:20,24; Deuteronomy 28:39; Job 2:9, 7:5, 25:6; Psalms 22:6 [21:7]; Proverbs 12:4, 25:20 [32:20]; Isaiah 14:11, 66:24; Jonah 4:7​

Side note, the related Koine Greek word:

G4662

Koine Greek: σκωληκόβρωτος

Transliterated: skōlēkobrōtos

Translated into King James Bible English, as:

“eaten”, 1x, Acts 12:23 KJB

“worms”, 1x, Acts 12:23 KJB​

If we do a search throughout the Bible [KJB] for “worm” or “worms”, we see that it has several definitions:

“worm”, “worms”:

[1] a creature, a moth larva:

Isaiah 51:8 KJB - For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.​

[2] a creature, an earthworm, a maggot, a 'vermes', an invertebrate [no-back bone], that eat, or live in earth, decaying matter, and plants [worms are the grave 'clothes' a person wears in decaying and death]:

Exodus 16:20 KJB - Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.

Exodus 16:24 KJB - And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.

Deuteronomy 28:39 KJB - Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them.

Job 7:5 KJB - My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.

Job 19:26 KJB - And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job 21:26 KJB - They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them.

Job 24:20 KJB - The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree.

Isaiah 14:11 KJB - Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Jonah 4:7 KJB - But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.

Micah 7:17 KJB - They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Acts 12:23 KJB - And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.​

[3] a “despised” persons life, a the life of a person who is “a reproach of men”, a “Jacob”:

Job 25:6 KJB - How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Psalms 22:6 KJB - But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.​

Side note: Psalms 22 KJB, is about Christ Jesus [Psalms 22:1; Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34 KJB], the “propitiation” [Romans 3:5; 1 John 2:2, 4:10 KJB], who was made to be “sin for us” [2 Corinthians 5:21 KJB], and took our sins and the “wrath of God” [Romans 1:18 KJB] upon Himself.

Compare also Psalms 22:6 KJB to Daniel 12:2 KJB, in speaking of the wicked:

Daniel 12:2 KJB - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Isaiah 41:14 KJB - Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Micah 7:17 KJB - They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.​

[4] also “corruption” and grave [clothes, worms cover the body], rotting [flesh], decay and despising:

Exodus 16:20 KJB - Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.

Exodus 16:24 KJB - And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.​

Side note, Exodus 16 KJB, deals with “the manna”, a type of the flesh, of either the sinner, or of the obedient Christ Jesus, see John 6:32, 6:51-53 KJB.

Job 7:5 KJB - My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.

Job 17:14 KJB - I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister.

Job 19:26 KJB - And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job 21:26 KJB - They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them.​

So then, what does “their worm dieth not” mean?

... to be continued ....

 

[One Baptism]

... Isaiah 66: 24 ... And, in Mark 9:43 ...

... continued ...

Notice that the phrase “their worm” is singular and possessive, and speaks to their [the wicked's] life.

It means that the person [lost*] that is cast into the hell[fire] will continue to exist [“dieth not”] until they, in all portions [“soul and body”; Matthew 10:28 KJB] are consumed totally by that hellfire [which fire will “not be quenched” [verb, 'to quench' put out] by anyone or any means]] into ashes [carbon].

Matthew 10:28 KJB - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

[lost*, the one who did not overcome sin by the indwelling of Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit, and did not receive the new name in the white stone, but remained instead a “Jacob” [a supplanter, overcome by sin], a “despised” person, a “reproach of men”, and “no man” [Psalms 22:6 KJB] [ie., not like obedient Christ Jesus, “the man” [1 Timothy 2:5 KJB], the “second” [1 Corinthians 15:47 KJB] and “last Adam” [1 Corinthians 15:45 KJB]], filled with “shame” and to have “everlasting contempt” [Daniel 12:2 KJB] upon them]

Let us consider how the Bible uses the word “quench[ed]”:

2 Samuel 14:7 KJB - And, behold, the whole family is risen against thine handmaid, and they said, Deliver him that smote his brother, that we may kill him, for the life of his brother whom he slew; and we will destroy the heir also: and so they shall quench my coal which is left, and shall not leave to my husband neither name nor remainder upon the earth.

2 Samuel 21:17 KJB - But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David sware unto him, saying, Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the light of Israel.

Job 18:5 KJB - Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine.

Psalms 104:11 KJB - They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst.

Song of Solomon 8:7 KJB - Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.

Isaiah 1:31 KJB - And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

Isaiah 1:30 KJB - For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.

Isaiah 42:3 KJB - A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

Jeremiah 4:4 KJB - Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Jeremiah 21:12 KJB - O house of David, thus saith the LORD; Execute judgment in the morning, and deliver him that is spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor, lest my fury go out like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Amos 5:6 KJB - Seek the LORD, and ye shall live; lest he break out like fire in the house of Joseph, and devour it, and there be none to quench it in Bethel.

Matthew 12:20 KJB - A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

Ephesians 6:16 KJB - Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 KJB - Quench not the Spirit.

Numbers 11:2 KJB - And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD, the fire was quenched.

2 Kings 22:17 KJB - Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.

2 Chronicles 34:25 KJB - Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched.

Psalms 118:12 KJB - They compassed me about like bees; they are quenched as the fire of thorns: for in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.

Isaiah 34:10 KJB - It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah 43:17 KJB - Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.

Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jeremiah 7:20 KJB - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Jeremiah 17:27 KJB - But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

Ezekiel 20:47 KJB - And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein.

Ezekiel 20:48 KJB - And all flesh shall see that I the LORD have kindled it: it shall not be quenched.
​

... to be continued ...

 

[One Baptism]

... Isaiah 66: 24“ ... And, in Mark 9:43...

... continued ...

Side note: the wrath of God, and the fire that He sent against Jerusalem, was not “quenched” [not put out by anyone or anything], but burned, until it consumed the city unto ashes and rubble, and only smoke was left which ascended upward into the heavens and could be seen from far, which is a type unto the end-time all consuming hellfire:
​

Jeremiah 39:8 KJB - And the Chaldeans burned the king's house, and the houses of the people, with fire, and brake down the walls of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 52:13 KJB - And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:

2 Kings 25:9 KJB - And he burnt the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all the houses of Jerusalem, and every great man's house burnt he with fire.

2 Chronicles 36:19 KJB - And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.

Amos 2:5 KJB - But I will send a fire upon Judah, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.

Mark 9:43 KJB - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:45 KJB - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Hebrews 11:34 KJB - Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
​

Side note: For more on the all consuming Fire, that the wicked will Perish [John 3:16 KJB] in, please see the Appendix at the end of this study.

From the Testimony of Jesus, we also read [see highlighted portions]:

“…We read of chains of darkness for the transgressor of God’s law. We read of the worm that dieth not and of the fire that is not quenched. Thus is represented the experience of everyone that has permitted himself to be grafted into the stalk of Satan, who has cherished sinful attributes. When too late he will see that sin is the transgression of God’s law. He will realize that because of transgression, his soul is cut off from God, and that God’s wrath abides upon him. This is a fire unquenchable. Thus the soul and body of every unrepentant sinner will be destroyed. Satan, the first transgressor, strives constantly to lead men into sin, and he who is willing to be led, who refuses to forsake his sins and receive forgiveness and grace unto salvation, will suffer the result of his course. …” - Ms 106, 1897, September 22, 1897; sister E. G. White

“… Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, “The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.”

Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but [page 294-295] also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, “Amen!”

Said the angel, “Satan is the root, his children are the branches. They are now consumed root and branch. They have died an everlasting death. They are never to have a resurrection, and God will have a clean universe.” I then looked and saw the fire which had consumed the wicked, burning up the rubbish and purifying the earth. Again I looked and saw the earth purified. There was not a single sign of the curse. The broken, uneven surface of the earth now looked like a level, extensive plain. God's entire universe was clean, and the great controversy was forever ended. Wherever we looked, everything upon which the eye rested was beautiful and holy. And all the redeemed host, old and young, great and small, cast their glittering crowns at the feet of their Redeemer, and prostrated themselves in adoration before Him, and worshiped Him that liveth forever and ever. The beautiful new earth, with all its glory, was the eternal inheritance of the saints. The kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, was then given to the saints of the Most High, who were to possess it forever, even forever and ever. …” - Early Writings, Page 294-295; sister E. G. White​

Please notice that the Testimony of Jesus, by an angel, to the messenger of God, said:

“... Said the angel, “The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.” ...”​

See the parallel definition:

[A1] “The worm of life shall not die; ...”

[B1] “... their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is ...”
​

[A2] “... the least particle ...”

[B2] “... for it to prey upon.”​

Thus ends the study, and now for the Appendix, [XX] The Consuming Fire of God's Love:

Additionally, it is the Righteous who will eternally dwell with God, who is “a Spirit” [John 4:24 KJB], and “the Holy Spirit” the fullness of “fire” [Acts 2:3; Revelation 1:4; 4:5 KJB], who “baptize/s” with “fire” [Matthew 3:11; Mark 9:49; Luke 3:16 KJB], thus we will dwell with “everlasting burnings” [Isaiah 33:14 KJB], for God is a “consuming fire” [to sin and of “Love”] [Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3; Hebrews 12:29; 1 John 4:8,16 KJB] and a “fire goeth before Him” [Psalms 97:3 KJB] which “shall devour before Him” [Psalms 50:3 KJB] and “he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire” [Lamentations 2:3 KJB], and for those whom He loves He is a “wall of fire round about” [Zechariah 2:5 KJB] and His “ministers a flame of fire” [Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7 KJB] and His “tongue as a devouring fire” [Isaiah 30:7 KJB] His speech “fire” [2 Samuel 22:9; Psalms 18:8; Jeremiah 20:9; Acts 2:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJB], His “eyes … as a flame of fire” [Revelation 1:14, 2:18, 19:12 KJB], His “face as the sun” and His “feet a pillar of fire” [Matthew 17:2; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Revelation 1:15, 2:18, 10:1 KJB], for He is a “refiners fire” [Malachi 3:2 KJB] having a “throne of fire” [Psalms 89:36; Daniel 7:9; Ezekiel 1:26-28; Revelation 4:5 KJB], His Ten Commandments a “Fiery Law” [Deuteronomy 33:2; Ezekiel 28:14,16 KJB] and it is they who have the victory over sin who stand upon the sea of glass mingled with fire [Revelation 15:2 KJB], and will be as the burning bush which was not consumed [Exodus 3:3 KJB], for He is “Light”, even the Light of all.

However, the wicked are never immortal, for they are to be burnt up into smoke and ashes at the meeting out of Judgment, they are perished forever; Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:9, 21:4 KJB.

 

[thatbrian]

What these people want is a system of independence, just as Satan autonomy and Adam followed, the sickness of Sin is that we imagine we can, as created beings, live independently from our Creator.

False religions are nothing new. Cain invented the first one, and all the rest are of the same mold as his.

 

[BobRyan]

What these people want is a system of independence, just as Satan autonomy and Adam followed, the sickness of Sin is that we imagine we can, as created beings, live independently from our Creator.

False religions are nothing new. Cain invented the first one, and all the rest are of the same mold as his.

factless emotionalism... noted

 

[BobRyan]

Your profile page says you have "Baptist convictions", now tell me why do you believe this particular Christian thought process since it did not come into existence until the 17th century? We must then assume that in your case and according to you"the Church" was lost and without a shepherd for some 1600 years until John Smyth came on the scene with his supposed correct interpretation of things. Are you really any better than the followers of Ellen White whom you castigate regularly?

Good point