The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

[BobRyan]

At the risk of having this doctrinal thread topic actually look - at the Bible again...


========================================================

Good thread on doctrine.


Matthew 10:28 "Fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".

So while the Lake of Fire does provide literal torment of literal fire and literal brimstone to literal lost souls in literal lake of fire -- that supernatural event will end with the "destruction of BOTH body AND soul".

Even Satan himself will "be no more" -- will be reduced to ashes.

Ezek 28
“You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

Rev 20
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Exek 18:4 "the soul that sin - it shall die"

Ezek 28 - reduced to ashes

Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

 

[BobRyan]

What these people want is a system of independence, just as Satan autonomy ....

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Church that has been around for over 2000 years which was started by Jesus Christ. The One Universal (Catholic) Apostolic Church, the one that was recognized by all Christendom. The one that was rejected by others, first during the Great Schism between East and West, then a heretical priest named Luther, and then all the others that split from him. It's all in the historical record my friend. Seek and ye shall find!

(The others you mentioned did not come about until sometime in the 1800's, so it certainly is not them).

Actually, the one true Church of Christ existed right at time of Christ, so was not the church of Rome...

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, Jesus spoke about Hell, for if God had not told us, we would have no knowledge of it. The topic is not the existence of Hell/Hellfire, Lake of Fire, but its duration.

“Their Worm Dieth Not”

The phrase, “their worm dieth not” is found in the following verses of the Gospel of Mark, in the New Testament [KJB]:

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.​

Jesus, in the Gospel of Mark in the NT, is quoting from the OT, in the prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.​

How do we then understand the phrase, “their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched”?

In order to understand the phrase, “their worm dieth not”, etc., we need to read them in their immediate contexts, prayerfully, first, and compare each phrase with the surrounding verses and then also compare it to the whole of the Bible [as per Genesis 40:8; Isaiah 28:10,13; 1 Corinthians 2:3 KJB] in the same subject, asking Jesus what they mean; and He, by the Holy Spirit, will explain them.

The parallel passages of Mark 9:44,46,48 KJB are:

Mark 9:43 KJB - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:45 KJB - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:47 KJB - And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:​

First of all, the verses speak of “Where ...”, in reference to a specific location, as seen in the previous verses, wherein it names the place, “go into hell”, “cast into hell”, “hellfire”. [Which burns upon this present earth, see Revelation 20]

Therefore, notice that Jesus, while quoting from Isaiah 66:24 KJB, repeats Himself several times, defining for us, so that we understand what He is saying:

Mark 9:43 KJB - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:45 KJB - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:47 KJB - And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.​

Please also notice the contrast between:

[1] “enter into life” [being Eternal Life, Heaven and the Kingdom of God], and,

[2] “go into [or 'cast into'] hell” [being eternal death, wherein there is no resurrection, nor life ever again, but only a dying by fire until one is forever dead and gone].​

Please also notice, Mark 9:49-50 KJB, in that all [everyone, good or evil] will be salted with “fire” [1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJB; either by the [1] Holy Ghost [Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:16 KJB], or [2] Hellfire]:

Mark 9:49 KJB - For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Mark 9:50 KJB - Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.​

Compare these to:

Matthew 5:13 KJB - Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.​

Compare “cast out”, and “trodden under foot of men” to:

Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Malachi 4:1 KJB - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:2 KJB - But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Malachi 4:3 KJB - And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Luke 14:34 KJB - Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

Luke 14:35 KJB - It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.​

Therefore the “worm dieth not”, deals with “hell” portion, which is also tied to “the fire is not quenched”, or the “[hell] fire” portion, which will take place at the end of the final phase of Judgment - the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15 KJB.

... to be continued ...

Eternal Life and Eternal death have the same length of time assigned to them by Jesus Himself, as forever!

 

[Yeshua1]

You leave us that option, as you are blinded to the scripture truths regarding the heresy of EW, and the false Gospel the Sda proports to teach as being from God!

 

[One Baptism]

Eternal Life and Eternal death have the same length of time assigned to them by Jesus Himself, as forever!

You have confused "eternal death" with "torment". The two are not synonymous. The torment [limited] happens before the [eternal] death takes place, while they yet live to suffer every man according as his works shall be. The death [2nd] is the ultimate end, from which there is no resurrection, nor return.

 

[Yeshua1]

The second death is NOT ever said to be ceasing of all life, but to be in a state forever alive and yet apart from God!

 

[One Baptism]

The second death is NOT ever said to be ceasing of all life, but to be in a state forever alive and yet apart from God!

So the 'old man of sin' was never really all dead, but somewhat alive still also? You do realize, just like I said, in so teaching, you immortalize sin, and have no victory ever over it, since it cannot ever truly die.

 

[Yeshua1]

So the 'old man of sin' was never really all dead, but somewhat alive still also? You do realize, just like I said, in so teaching, you immortalize sin, and have no victory ever over it, since it cannot ever truly die.

What can't ever die?

 

[One Baptism]

... Isaiah 66: 24 ... And, in Mark 9:43...

Let's look at this some more, and look at the word "carcases" as found in Isaiah 66:24 KJB, and see it in immediate context, and as used throughout:

Isaiah 66:6 KJB - A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

Isaiah 66:15 KJB - For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Isaiah 66:16 KJB - For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Isaiah 66:17 KJB - They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.​

His "chariots" are all the hosts of angels, for they are flames of fire [see 2 Kings 2:11, 6:17, 7:6, 13:14; Psalms 68:17, 104:4; Joel 2:3,5; Hebrews 1:7 KJB], and in such glory, the very heavens and earth itself will melt at the presence of Jesus Christ, in His glory, His Father's glory and the glory of all the Holy Angels [2nd Advent, before/at the beginning of 1,000 years], and in the 3rd Advent [after/at the end of 1,000 years], all the gloriously transfigured righteous also are present.

This is like unto what Jeremiah said:

Jeremiah 16:4 KJB - They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.​

The word Hebrew word [H6297] used in Isaiah is translated thus:

פּגר
peger

Total KJB Occurrences: 28

carcases, 13

Genesis 15:11; Leviticus 26:30 (2); Numbers 14:29,32-33 (2); 1 Samuel 17:46; Isaiah 34:3, 66:24; Ezekiel 6:5, 43:7,9; Nahum 3:3​

bodies, 6

2 Chronicles 20:24-25 (2); Jeremiah 31:40, 33:5, 41:9; Amos 8:3​

dead, 6

2 Chronicles 20:24-25 (2); Jeremiah 31:40, 33:5, 41:9; Amos 8:3​

corpses, 2

2 Kings 19:35; Isaiah 37:36​

carcase, 1

Isaiah 14:19​

Here is how the bible uses the word English word "carcase/s", just in Isaiah, it is a dead person [lifeless person, a dead body, see Ezekiel 6:5; Nahum 3:3 KJB, etc]:

Isaiah 5:25 KJB - Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Isaiah 14:19 KJB - But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Isaiah 34:3 KJB - Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

Isaiah 66:24 KJB - And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.​

Here is how the bible uses the word English word "carcases", throughout the scripture [KJB], it is a dead person [lifeless person, a dead body, see Ezekiel 6:5, Nahum 3:3 KJB, etc]:

Genesis 15:11 KJB - And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

Leviticus 11:11 KJB - They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Leviticus 11:26 KJB - The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

Leviticus 26:30 KJB - And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Numbers 14:29 KJB - Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

Numbers 14:32 KJB - But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.

Numbers 14:33 KJB - And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.

1 Samuel 17:46 KJB - This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.

Jeremiah 7:33 KJB - And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.

Jeremiah 9:22 KJB - Speak, Thus saith the LORD, Even the carcases of men shall fall as dung upon the open field, and as the handful after the harvestman, and none shall gather them.

Jeremiah 16:4 KJB - They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.

Jeremiah 16:18 KJB - And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

Jeremiah 19:7 KJB - And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.

Ezekiel 6:5 KJB - And I will lay the dead carcases of the children of Israel before their idols; and I will scatter your bones round about your altars.

Ezekiel 43:7 KJB - And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

Ezekiel 43:9 KJB - Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

Nahum 3:3 KJB - The horseman lifteth up both the bright sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses:

Hebrews 3:17 KJB - But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
​

... to be continued ...

 

[One Baptism]

... Isaiah 66: 24 ... And, in Mark 9:43 ...

... continued ...

Here is how the bible uses the word English word "carcase", throughout the scripture [KJB], it is a dead person [lifeless person, see Ezekiel 6:5, Nahum 3:3 KJB, etc]:

Leviticus 5:2 KJB - Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.

Leviticus 11:8 KJB - Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Leviticus 11:24 KJB - And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even.

Leviticus 11:25 KJB - And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

Leviticus 11:27 KJB - And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even.

Leviticus 11:28 KJB - And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.

Leviticus 11:35 KJB - And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean, and shall be unclean unto you.

Leviticus 11:36 KJB - Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

Leviticus 11:37 KJB - And if any part of their carcase fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean.

Leviticus 11:38 KJB - But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.

Leviticus 11:39 KJB - And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even.

Leviticus 11:40 KJB - And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

Deuteronomy 14:8 KJB - And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Deuteronomy 28:26 KJB - And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.

Joshua 8:29 KJB - And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until eventide: and as soon as the sun was down, Joshua commanded that they should take his carcase down from the tree, and cast it at the entering of the gate of the city, and raise thereon a great heap of stones, that remaineth unto this day.

Judges 14:8 KJB - And after a time he returned to take her, and he turned aside to see the carcase of the lion: and, behold, there was a swarm of bees and honey in the carcase of the lion.

Judges 14:9 KJB - And he took thereof in his hands, and went on eating, and came to his father and mother, and he gave them, and they did eat: but he told not them that he had taken the honey out of the carcase of the lion.

1 Kings 13:22 KJB - But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.

1 Kings 13:24 KJB - And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.

1 Kings 13:25 KJB - And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.

1 Kings 13:28 KJB - And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass.

1 Kings 13:29 KJB - And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him.

1 Kings 13:30 KJB - And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother!

2 Kings 9:37 KJB - And the carcase of Jezebel shall be as dung upon the face of the field in the portion of Jezreel; so that they shall not say, This is Jezebel.

Isaiah 14:19 KJB - But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Matthew 24:28 KJB - For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.​

In Isaiah 66, and in Mark 9 [quoting Isaiah 66], we see that the wicked are slain, dead upon the ground, and to be burned up in the fire, consumed away as "the fat of lambs", for it is through the Sanctuary [Psalms 77:13 KJB], that we understand all the teachings of God, including what happens to sin, sinners/wicked, they are to be filled with the terror of the LORD in His Holiness, to be slaughtered, cut into pieces, and burned up into smoke and ashes, that all such may have their end [2nd death], for sin, when it is "finished", bringeth forth "death", which is the wages of sin:

Psalms 37:20 KJB - But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Psalms 73:17 KJB - Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.

Psalms 73:18 KJB - Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.

Psalms 73:19 KJB - How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors.​

 

[One Baptism]

What can't ever die?

Without desiring to be insulting, may I ask, What is the primary language that you speak, read and write in? I ask, since it seems that there is a language barrier, in regards the words, definitions and sentence structure of my American English reply to yourself.

 

[Yeshua1]

Without desiring to be insulting, may I ask, What is the primary language that you speak, read and write in? I ask, since it seems that there is a language barrier, in regards the words, definitions and sentence structure of my American English reply to yourself.

How will there be real justice if the Hitler and the little old Grandma both just burn away?

 

[One Baptism]

How will there be real justice if the Hitler and the little old Grandma both just burn away?

One suffers longer according as their works [which is Justice]. Hence the difference between torment [limited] and final end, 2nd death [permanent, eternal].

Matthew 8:29 KJB - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?​

Are wicked angels suffering now in fire, or later, if now, how do you explain this verse, and if later when according to your belief and for how long?

I read, in scripture [KJB], that "suffering"/torment has a limit, even for such wickedness that reached unto Heaven:

Jude 1:7 KJB - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The "vengeance of eternal fire" , is the same as saying the "vengeance of God [who is the eternal fire]".
​

Christ Jesus also "suffered" for sin, having took our sins [all sin of man-kind] upon himself, and was it forever, no, but "once" [having a limited time]?

1 Peter 3:18 KJB - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Hebrews 13:12 KJB - Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Hebrews 9:25 KJB - Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Hebrews 9:26 KJB - For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Acts 17:3 KJB - Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Luke 24:26 KJB - Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
​

Acts 17:3 KJB, teaches that suffering [for sin] exists only while alive, and the suffering was to continue unto the death, but once truly dead, there is no more suffering, and thus suffering has a limit, has an end, and thus the former things are passed away [gone, no more, not ever again, etc].

 

[robycop3]

The Koine Greek of the text actually reads thus in the GNT TR:

Revelation 20:10 GNT TR - "... εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων ..."
​

Transliterated into English letters: "... [h]eis touS aiwnaS twn aiwnwn ..." [whereas "w" is transliterated Greek "o-mega", and "S" being a final ending 's'], reading a very harsh literal, 'into the [or that] aeon [of] the aeon', which carries the meaning of the English word - "throughout" [being continuous, without reprieve], or 'period to period', 'age to age', 'moment to moment', 'epoch to epoch', 'era to era', etc. When connected with the words "ημερας και νυκτος" [day and night], it means that the devil/satan will suffer in his torments/punishment [as his works, according to his deeds, etc, shall he be punished] continuously throughout day and night, on this earth, without relief, until he is smoke and ashes, as per texts already cited. He is not an eternal being, and never will be, and God will never sustain such a being through all eternity, especially in endless suffering, it is against His very character of Justice, Mercy and Love.

Again, it is not the words or the translation of "for ever and ever" [they're perfect] [in any such translation, you could list 100 such same translations, it doesn't matter, that is not the issue, the words are perfectly fine, and I agree with them, and the argument is not about the 'beast' or the 'false prophet', I already agree about their position and where they were during the 1,000 years [a limited time, for this world and all wickedness and sinners will pass away], etc], but [the issue is] what the words mean scripturally [KJB]. God gave the words, and thus gets to define the words, for God knows what they mean and what is intended to convey by giving them, and even ties the word "devoured" in the previous verse [9]. The very next verse after 20:15 KJB is:

Revelation 21:1 KJB - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
​

My question remains. Where is the devil, and all of the finally impenitent when they receive their fiery punishment? Where? Will there be any "place" found for the wicked in the New Heavens and New Earth?

Are you saying that the words, "forever and ever" in scripture [KJB], always means unending, having no time limit whatsoever? What if I show you other meanings, and other times [than eternal] from the same book?

The same words are found not just in the archaic, outdated KJV (NOT "KJB"!) but in earlier versions, as well as in modern ones. I believe all those translators over all those years know/knew a little more about the actual meanings of many Koine Greek words/phrases than we "ordinary" English-users do.

Again, "annihilationism" is just an escape doctrine for those who reject Jesus.

 

[robycop3]

... continued ...

Side note: the wrath of God, and the fire that He sent against Jerusalem, was not “quenched” [not put out by anyone or anything], but burned, until it consumed the city unto ashes and rubble, and only smoke was left which ascended upward into the heavens and could be seen from far, which is a type unto the end-time all consuming hellfire:
​

Jeremiah 39:8 KJB - And the Chaldeans burned the king's house, and the houses of the people, with fire, and brake down the walls of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 52:13 KJB - And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:

2 Kings 25:9 KJB - And he burnt the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all the houses of Jerusalem, and every great man's house burnt he with fire.

2 Chronicles 36:19 KJB - And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.

Amos 2:5 KJB - But I will send a fire upon Judah, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.

Mark 9:43 KJB - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:45 KJB - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Hebrews 11:34 KJB - Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.​

Side note: For more on the all consuming Fire, that the wicked will Perish [John 3:16 KJB] in, please see the Appendix at the end of this study.

From the Testimony of Jesus, we also read [see highlighted portions]:

“…We read of chains of darkness for the transgressor of God’s law. We read of the worm that dieth not and of the fire that is not quenched. Thus is represented the experience of everyone that has permitted himself to be grafted into the stalk of Satan, who has cherished sinful attributes. When too late he will see that sin is the transgression of God’s law. He will realize that because of transgression, his soul is cut off from God, and that God’s wrath abides upon him. This is a fire unquenchable. Thus the soul and body of every unrepentant sinner will be destroyed. Satan, the first transgressor, strives constantly to lead men into sin, and he who is willing to be led, who refuses to forsake his sins and receive forgiveness and grace unto salvation, will suffer the result of his course. …” - Ms 106, 1897, September 22, 1897; sister E. G. White

“… Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, “The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.”

Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but [page 294-295] also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, “Amen!”

Said the angel, “Satan is the root, his children are the branches. They are now consumed root and branch. They have died an everlasting death. They are never to have a resurrection, and God will have a clean universe.” I then looked and saw the fire which had consumed the wicked, burning up the rubbish and purifying the earth. Again I looked and saw the earth purified. There was not a single sign of the curse. The broken, uneven surface of the earth now looked like a level, extensive plain. God's entire universe was clean, and the great controversy was forever ended. Wherever we looked, everything upon which the eye rested was beautiful and holy. And all the redeemed host, old and young, great and small, cast their glittering crowns at the feet of their Redeemer, and prostrated themselves in adoration before Him, and worshiped Him that liveth forever and ever. The beautiful new earth, with all its glory, was the eternal inheritance of the saints. The kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, was then given to the saints of the Most High, who were to possess it forever, even forever and ever. …” - Early Writings, Page 294-295; sister E. G. White​

Please notice that the Testimony of Jesus, by an angel, to the messenger of God, said:

“... Said the angel, “The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.” ...”​

See the parallel definition:

[A1] “The worm of life shall not die; ...”

[B1] “... their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is ...”
​

[A2] “... the least particle ...”

[B2] “... for it to prey upon.”​

Thus ends the study, and now for the Appendix, [XX] The Consuming Fire of God's Love:

Additionally, it is the Righteous who will eternally dwell with God, who is “a Spirit” [John 4:24 KJB], and “the Holy Spirit” the fullness of “fire” [Acts 2:3; Revelation 1:4; 4:5 KJB], who “baptize/s” with “fire” [Matthew 3:11; Mark 9:49; Luke 3:16 KJB], thus we will dwell with “everlasting burnings” [Isaiah 33:14 KJB], for God is a “consuming fire” [to sin and of “Love”] [Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3; Hebrews 12:29; 1 John 4:8,16 KJB] and a “fire goeth before Him” [Psalms 97:3 KJB] which “shall devour before Him” [Psalms 50:3 KJB] and “he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire” [Lamentations 2:3 KJB], and for those whom He loves He is a “wall of fire round about” [Zechariah 2:5 KJB] and His “ministers a flame of fire” [Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7 KJB] and His “tongue as a devouring fire” [Isaiah 30:7 KJB] His speech “fire” [2 Samuel 22:9; Psalms 18:8; Jeremiah 20:9; Acts 2:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJB], His “eyes … as a flame of fire” [Revelation 1:14, 2:18, 19:12 KJB], His “face as the sun” and His “feet a pillar of fire” [Matthew 17:2; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Revelation 1:15, 2:18, 10:1 KJB], for He is a “refiners fire” [Malachi 3:2 KJB] having a “throne of fire” [Psalms 89:36; Daniel 7:9; Ezekiel 1:26-28; Revelation 4:5 KJB], His Ten Commandments a “Fiery Law” [Deuteronomy 33:2; Ezekiel 28:14,16 KJB] and it is they who have the victory over sin who stand upon the sea of glass mingled with fire [Revelation 15:2 KJB], and will be as the burning bush which was not consumed [Exodus 3:3 KJB], for He is “Light”, even the Light of all.

However, the wicked are never immortal, for they are to be burnt up into smoke and ashes at the meeting out of Judgment, they are perished forever; Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:9, 21:4 KJB.

I posted Scriptures that prove differently. Scripture does not contradict itself. Why would God keep a lake of fire forever if it serves no purpose once the wicked would be destroyed?

All your guesswork about the meaning of fire that's not quenched and worms that don't die is useless in face of the Scriptures that state hell & the punishment of the wicked is eternal. I BELIEVE GOD'S WORD, NOT SOME CULT'S PRIVATE INTERPS OF IT!

 

[robycop3]

... continued ...

Side note: the wrath of God, and the fire that He sent against Jerusalem, was not “quenched” [not put out by anyone or anything], but burned, until it consumed the city unto ashes and rubble, and only smoke was left which ascended upward into the heavens and could be seen from far, which is a type unto the end-time all consuming hellfire:
​

Jeremiah 39:8 KJB - And the Chaldeans burned the king's house, and the houses of the people, with fire, and brake down the walls of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 52:13 KJB - And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:

2 Kings 25:9 KJB - And he burnt the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all the houses of Jerusalem, and every great man's house burnt he with fire.

2 Chronicles 36:19 KJB - And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.

Amos 2:5 KJB - But I will send a fire upon Judah, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.

Mark 9:43 KJB - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:45 KJB - And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:46 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:48 KJB - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Quoting EGW instantly destroyed the credibility of your post to me! I don't believe a thing she wrote!

In man's courts, a rule is that, if a jury detects any lie in a witness' testimony, that jury may disregard that witness' entire testimony. That's what I do when someone quotes a charlatan such as EGW was.

Hebrews 11:34 KJB - Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.​

Side note: For more on the all consuming Fire, that the wicked will Perish [John 3:16 KJB] in, please see the Appendix at the end of this study.

From the Testimony of Jesus, we also read [see highlighted portions]:

“…We read of chains of darkness for the transgressor of God’s law. We read of the worm that dieth not and of the fire that is not quenched. Thus is represented the experience of everyone that has permitted himself to be grafted into the stalk of Satan, who has cherished sinful attributes. When too late he will see that sin is the transgression of God’s law. He will realize that because of transgression, his soul is cut off from God, and that God’s wrath abides upon him. This is a fire unquenchable. Thus the soul and body of every unrepentant sinner will be destroyed. Satan, the first transgressor, strives constantly to lead men into sin, and he who is willing to be led, who refuses to forsake his sins and receive forgiveness and grace unto salvation, will suffer the result of his course. …” - Ms 106, 1897, September 22, 1897; sister E. G. White

“… Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, “The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.”

Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but [page 294-295] also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, “Amen!”

Said the angel, “Satan is the root, his children are the branches. They are now consumed root and branch. They have died an everlasting death. They are never to have a resurrection, and God will have a clean universe.” I then looked and saw the fire which had consumed the wicked, burning up the rubbish and purifying the earth. Again I looked and saw the earth purified. There was not a single sign of the curse. The broken, uneven surface of the earth now looked like a level, extensive plain. God's entire universe was clean, and the great controversy was forever ended. Wherever we looked, everything upon which the eye rested was beautiful and holy. And all the redeemed host, old and young, great and small, cast their glittering crowns at the feet of their Redeemer, and prostrated themselves in adoration before Him, and worshiped Him that liveth forever and ever. The beautiful new earth, with all its glory, was the eternal inheritance of the saints. The kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, was then given to the saints of the Most High, who were to possess it forever, even forever and ever. …” - Early Writings, Page 294-295; sister E. G. White​

Please notice that the Testimony of Jesus, by an angel, to the messenger of God, said:

“... Said the angel, “The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.” ...”​

See the parallel definition:

[A1] “The worm of life shall not die; ...”

[B1] “... their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is ...”
​

[A2] “... the least particle ...”

[B2] “... for it to prey upon.”​

Thus ends the study, and now for the Appendix, [XX] The Consuming Fire of God's Love:

Additionally, it is the Righteous who will eternally dwell with God, who is “a Spirit” [John 4:24 KJB], and “the Holy Spirit” the fullness of “fire” [Acts 2:3; Revelation 1:4; 4:5 KJB], who “baptize/s” with “fire” [Matthew 3:11; Mark 9:49; Luke 3:16 KJB], thus we will dwell with “everlasting burnings” [Isaiah 33:14 KJB], for God is a “consuming fire” [to sin and of “Love”] [Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3; Hebrews 12:29; 1 John 4:8,16 KJB] and a “fire goeth before Him” [Psalms 97:3 KJB] which “shall devour before Him” [Psalms 50:3 KJB] and “he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire” [Lamentations 2:3 KJB], and for those whom He loves He is a “wall of fire round about” [Zechariah 2:5 KJB] and His “ministers a flame of fire” [Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7 KJB] and His “tongue as a devouring fire” [Isaiah 30:7 KJB] His speech “fire” [2 Samuel 22:9; Psalms 18:8; Jeremiah 20:9; Acts 2:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJB], His “eyes … as a flame of fire” [Revelation 1:14, 2:18, 19:12 KJB], His “face as the sun” and His “feet a pillar of fire” [Matthew 17:2; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Revelation 1:15, 2:18, 10:1 KJB], for He is a “refiners fire” [Malachi 3:2 KJB] having a “throne of fire” [Psalms 89:36; Daniel 7:9; Ezekiel 1:26-28; Revelation 4:5 KJB], His Ten Commandments a “Fiery Law” [Deuteronomy 33:2; Ezekiel 28:14,16 KJB] and it is they who have the victory over sin who stand upon the sea of glass mingled with fire [Revelation 15:2 KJB], and will be as the burning bush which was not consumed [Exodus 3:3 KJB], for He is “Light”, even the Light of all.

However, the wicked are never immortal, for they are to be burnt up into smoke and ashes at the meeting out of Judgment, they are perished forever; Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:9, 21:4 KJB.

 

[One Baptism]

The same words are found not just in the archaic, outdated KJV (NOT "KJB"!) but in earlier versions, as well as in modern ones. I believe all those translators over all those years know/knew a little more about the actual meanings of many Koine Greek words/phrases than we "ordinary" English-users do.

Again, "annihilationism" is just an escape doctrine for those who reject Jesus.

That is actually a misunderstanding of how the Bible itself relates to us, since it is God who defines His own words, in His own book, not us, for it is God who giveth the interpretation. And how could it be otherwise?

For you on the other [non OP related, thus non-sequitur] subject, have a look see, as you will, and you are free to ignore and not respond to it/them as you have many other questions I have asked you in this thread:

KJV Bible Vindicated

My last word on this non-sequitur here [I actually have Laurence M Vance's, "Archaic Words and the Authorized Version" if you are going to press this, and I will quote directly from it and am ready to do so, in another thread.]

 

[One Baptism]

... Why would God keep a lake of fire forever ...

What passage or verse says that the lake of fire is itself, as you say, "forever" [eternal]?

 

[robycop3]

That is actually a misunderstanding of how the Bible itself relates to us, since it is God who defines His own words, in His own book, not us, for it is God who giveth the interpretation. And how could it be otherwise?

For you on the other [non OP related, thus non-sequitur] subject, have a look see, as you will, and you are free to ignore and not respond to it/them as you have many other questions I have asked you in this thread:

KJV Bible Vindicated

My last word on this non-sequitur here [I actually have Laurence M Vance's, "Archaic Words and the Authorized Version" if you are going to press this, and I will quote directly from it and am ready to do so, in another thread.]

Not trying to derail this thread, which I started, Sir, but I'll gladly show you why the KJVO myth is false, in the "Bible translations" sub-forum. I can answer and counter any pro-KJVO assertions.

MEANWHILE, BACK AT THE RANCH...

Your KJV has those same words, "for ever and ever" in it as do older & newer translations. No misunderstanding there. Just as heaven & the new earth are eternal for the saints, hell is eternal for the wicked, in God's perfect justice.