The Final Authority of Scripture

[The Biblicist]

Reconcile your "do' with "always":

John 6
28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Again, you are only proving my point. Justifying faith is not a work that man can do. Justifying faith is 'the work of God" not the work of men. Faith is a "fruit of the Spirit" not a fruit of the flesh. No man can "come" to Christ without divine intervention "except the Father draw him." So, there is no reconciling "do" with "always."

You don't suppose Belief is implied somewhat in "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”?

Justifying faith is not a leap in the dark, but it "always" has an object that it embraces. The difference between true justifying faith and "vain" faith is the object being embraced. Your kind of faith is a "vain" faith as it embraces a false object.

Justification and Salvation aside. I love God and neighbor for free.

I don't really think you understand this command at all and I know you don't obey it. Take another careful look at his wording and notice the repeated "all". The command does not say make a sincere effort but it is something that "always" requires "all" in every aspect of your being. In other words "be ye perfect EVEN AS God is perfect" for "God is love."

Here let me show you where I got that crazy idea Jesus is one flesh with the church.

Ephesians 5
28So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

My understanding is the two are one flesh is a great mystery......he's talking about Christ and the Church.

First, lets address the immediate context which you have conveniently ignored. The context is about "submission" (Eph. 5:20-6:9). Every false interpretation jerks scripture out of context. The context here is submission to authorities established by God.

In the case of husband and wife, the husband holds the position of authority, just as Christ holds the position of authority over the church. The purpose of this superior position is not only to preserve order, but for the ultimate good of the one in the position of submission. In the case of the church, it is for their spiritual growth and holiness by the washing of the Word of God (again, the final authority of the written word in connection with the Living Word).

Paul draws an analogy between the closest PHYSICAL relationship between a husband and wife with the SPIRITUAL relationship between Christ and the church. Your are confusing the physical with the spiritual. What you have placed in upper case letters has its LITERAL application to the LITERAL act of human marriage and thus the LITERAL union of LITERAL flesh. There is a stark difference between LITERAL union of FLESH and SPIRITUAL union between Christ and His church(es). All Paul is saying is there is an analogy in the closest of human relationships and the spiritual relationship when it comes to submission to authority.

The error of your interpretation can be illustrated by another analogy referring to the very same thing - position of authority" when Paul says to the Corinthians:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. - 1 Cor. 11:3

Your failure to discern between literal and spiritual relations is similar to someone concluding about this passage that since man and the woman as well as the incarnate Christ all have literal physical heads on their literal physical bodies, therefore, the Father must equally have a literal physical head on a literal physical body because the definite noun "the head" is used for all parties concerned. However, it is being used metaphorically not literally. No question there is a literal head on three out of four but Paul is using 'the head" metaphorically not literally.

Likewise, "one flesh" has its only literal application to literal human marriage in a submissive relationship one to another. Paul is merely using this as an analogy for the SPIRITUAL relationship between the church and Christ with regard to SUBMISSION to the Word of God in their spiritual growth, which is the practical value of that position of submission. BTW Catholicism usurps both Christ and his Word denying they are in positional submission to the Word of God.

There is no LITERAL physical relationship between Christ and the church except in the mind of one who does not understand the metaphorical use of language and cannot discern between an analogy and literal.

"You are demonstrating that you need to be taught the Scriptures. Timothy is also told "to study" in order to "rightly divide the Word of God" so he would be a workman not to be ashamed. You can't just jerk a text out context and establish a doctrine that is clearly contradictive to the overall teaching of Paul to Timothy? Have you read 2 Tim. 3:16-17 and noticed who that was written unto??? Guess not!"

Of course I haven't read this stuff, only because I haven't gotten to a verse commanding that I had to read this stuff.......

Like most who err and are too proud to admit they have erred, you simply change the subject to cover your errors instead of honest admission you were wrong in jerking that text out of its context. Diversion is another dishonest tactic.

2 timothy 3
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

theopneustos God breathed. Very important AMEN.

Profitable for teaching, profitable for training in righteousness. Profitable for doctrine.


Having eyeballs is profitable for teaching, That doesn't make eyeballs the teaching itself.

We would be dealing with something entirely different if he had said, scripture IS doctrine, scripture IS training in righteousness.

The teaching , training, doctrine helps a person be adequate for every good work. AMEN.

Those things are what they are, scripture HELPS, Profitable.

Keep your day job because Biblical exegesis is just not your cup of tea. Teaching is not dependent upon eyeballs, but ultimately "ears" as the most common way of teaching in New Testament times was by reading it to others. Just having external ears is not sufficient but one must have internal ears - 'he that hath an ear let him hear". The problem in teaching is the INSIDE of man not the outside.

BTW this text teaches that God's written word is completely "adequate" for "every" good work without the mention or inclusion of "Sacred Tradition."

James 1
2Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

I want to start a new denomination, the motto will be "PATIENCE ALONE"


According to scripture I just need that patience and endurance......I'll be perfect lacking in nothing.
That's a lot more then your case for scripture.

Again, keep your day job as being an exegete is not your calling. Have you ever heard of the word 'context"? The immediate context here is not "how to start a denomination" or "the use of Scripture (although that comes into view at the end of the chapter), but the immediate context is "trials" and their use. Trials in the life of Christian are purposed by God to bring about 'patience' (endurance). You illustrate why Catholicism is heretical because they don't know a thing about 'rightly dividing the Word of truth."

 

[The Biblicist]

Sorry, your right.

Jesus completely repudiated this KIND of praying whether done "FAST" or "slow" or sincere or insincere as mere vain repetition. Sheen needs to read the blood history of Roman Catholicism and then repent for his hypocrisy.

 

[The Biblicist]

E. The Bible predicts its full canonization within the first Century:


Isa 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

This is the prophecy. Now lets now consider its context and ultimate application. Isaiah is often referred to by Old Testament scholars as the "fifth gospel" as it provides one of the clearest gospel accounts in all of Biblical literature in Isaiah 53. Isaiah chapter 8 is found within an immediate Messianic context that has its obvious marks with Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6. Like with many Old Testament prophecies they have incomplete immediate secondary applications.However, the nature of these prophecies are impossible to fulfill by any contemporary application and so the primary application in the mind of God is Christ.

Smack dab right in the middle of Isaiah 7:14 and 9:6 chapter 8 is located. Now let's narrow the scope of our contextual investigation. Isaiah 8:14-15 that immediately precedes our text is applied to Christ by New Testament writers. However, what about our text. Yes, Isaiah 8:18 is also applied directly to Jesus Christ and his disciples by the writer of Hebrews (Heb. 2:3-4; 13). The writer of Hebrews explicitly applies the words "the children whom the Lord hath given" in the Isaiah context to Christ and his disciples" with regard to the nation of Israel. It is important for my detractors to take note that the prophetic fulfillment of these particular "disciples" is within the context of the nation of Israel, thus limiting them to the historical time period to the "my disciples" who were with Christ in the land of Israel. This is the only time in the Old Testament the word "disciples" is used as it is primarily used only in the New Testament with regard to the followers of Christ.

Now, lets look at the precise language. "Bind up the testimony and seal the law AMONG my disciples."
In ancient times when a "book" was completed it would be bound together and rolled up into a scroll and then sealed by a wax seal - thus denoting it was completed. This can be seen in the book in Revelation 5 where it has seven seals. It had been written and then bound together into a scroll and then sealed. So the language is conveying the completion of something, what is that something?

The word "testimony" refers to a witness whereas the words "the law" is a common designation for the Old Testament written Word of God. This was to be bound and sealed by "my disciples" and it is worthy of note that the apostolic office was instituted to be a witness of the teachings and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The last living "disciple" who was an eyewitness of the resurrection referred to the apostolic witness of Christ as "the testimony"

Who bare record of the word of God, [or the Law - Isa. 8:16] and of the testimony ["the testimony" - Isa. 8:16] of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. - Rev. 1:2

Jesus regarded his life and teachings as his "testimony":

Joh 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
Joh 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
Joh 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

The apostles regarded their witness of the life and teachings of Christ as their "testimony":

Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
Ac 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:


The use of this term is directly joined with prophecy whereby scriptures are the result:

Re 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Finally notice that after "the testimony and the law" had been bound and sealed the next prophetic revelation is from heaven - the Living Word:

1. THE SEAL - Isa 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
2. THE NEXT REVELATION - 17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

Notice the parallel with how John closes his book, providing a seal and then the next prophetic revelation from heaven he expects is the coming of Christ:

1. THE SEAL: Rev. 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
2. THE NEXT REVELATION: 20 ¶ He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.


The conclusion of the Isaiah prophesy proves that the descriptive terms "testimony" and "the law" are to be taken together as ONE and the completed written "word" of God as r as FINAL AUTHORITY:

Isa. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Notice the combination when bound and sealed are but one singular "THIS WORD." Notice it is the final authority to judge all supposed supernatural revelations (Isa. 8:19).

In our next post we will see that Jesus and his disciples realized this prophecy and realized they were fulfilling it by their writings.

 

[The Biblicist]

Before I go on to demonstrate both Christ and his disicples realized they were fulfilling Isaiah 8:16-20, I want to show that the Bible beginning with Genesis and completed in Revelation reads as one finished book. The following was basically taken from Halley's handbook:

The Bible Reads as a Finished Revelation


Not only does the Bible predict its own completion by the Disciples of Christ prior to His return but it reads as you would expect a finished book to read.


Halley’s Handbook of the Bible presents the case that the Bible reads as a finished book as follows:


“The Bible is all one story. The last part of the last book of the Bible reads like the close of the story begun in the first part of the first book of the Bible.


The First word in Genesis: “in the Beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” - Gen. 1:1

Almost the last word in Revelation: “I saw a new heaven and a new earth” - Rev. 21:1


‘The gather together of waters He called the sea’ - Gen. 1:10

‘And the sea is no more’ - Rev. 21:1


‘The darkness He called night’ - Gen. 1:5

‘There shall be no night there’ - Rev. 21:25


‘God made the two great lights [sun and the moon]’ - Gen. 1:16

‘The city had no need of the sun or the moon’ - Rev. 21:23


‘In the day you eat thereof you shall surely die’ - Gen. 2:17

‘Death shall be no more’ - Rev. 21:4


‘I will greatly multiply your pain’ - Gen. 3:16

“There shall be pain no more” - Rev. 21:4


‘Cursed is the ground for your sake’ - Gen. 3:17

‘There shall be no more curse’ - Rev. 22:3


Satan appears as deceiver of mankind - Gen. 3:1, 4

Satan disappears forever - Rev. 20:10


They were driven from the tree of life - Gen. 3:22-24

The tree of life reappears - Rev. 22:2


They were driven from God’s presence - Gen. 3:24

‘They shall see his face’ - Rev. 22:4



Man’s primeval home was by a river - Gen. 2:10

Man’s eternal home is by a river - Rev. 22:2”

(Quoted from Halley’s Handbook, p. 740)


Genesis tells us how everything began and Revelation tells us how everything will end. In Genesis we see the beginning of sin and in Revelation we see the full and final development of sin in the Great Harlot, the false prophet, the beast and the dragon.


In Genesis physical death is introduced but in Revelation it is completed in the Second death (Rev. 20:14-15).


In Genesis we have the promise of a coming Savior (Gen. 3:15) but in Revelation His final coming is realized in glorious fulfillment.


The Bible reads as a finished book because it is a finished.

 

[utilyan]

Again, you are only proving my point. Justifying faith is not a work that man can do. Justifying faith is 'the work of God" not the work of men. Faith is a "fruit of the Spirit" not a fruit of the flesh. No man can "come" to Christ without divine intervention "except the Father draw him." So, there is no reconciling "do" with "always."




Justifying faith is not a leap in the dark, but it "always" has an object that it embraces. The difference between true justifying faith and "vain" faith is the object being embraced. Your kind of faith is a "vain" faith as it embraces a false object.


I don't really think you understand this command at all and I know you don't obey it. Take another careful look at his wording and notice the repeated "all". The command does not say make a sincere effort but it is something that "always" requires "all" in every aspect of your being. In other words "be ye perfect EVEN AS God is perfect" for "God is love."





First, lets address the immediate context which you have conveniently ignored. The context is about "submission" (Eph. 5:20-6:9). Every false interpretation jerks scripture out of context. The context here is submission to authorities established by God.

In the case of husband and wife, the husband holds the position of authority, just as Christ holds the position of authority over the church. The purpose of this superior position is not only to preserve order, but for the ultimate good of the one in the position of submission. In the case of the church, it is for their spiritual growth and holiness by the washing of the Word of God (again, the final authority of the written word in connection with the Living Word).

Paul draws an analogy between the closest PHYSICAL relationship between a husband and wife with the SPIRITUAL relationship between Christ and the church. Your are confusing the physical with the spiritual. What you have placed in upper case letters has its LITERAL application to the LITERAL act of human marriage and thus the LITERAL union of LITERAL flesh. There is a stark difference between LITERAL union of FLESH and SPIRITUAL union between Christ and His church(es). All Paul is saying is there is an analogy in the closest of human relationships and the spiritual relationship when it comes to submission to authority.

The error of your interpretation can be illustrated by another analogy referring to the very same thing - position of authority" when Paul says to the Corinthians:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. - 1 Cor. 11:3

Your failure to discern between literal and spiritual relations is similar to someone concluding about this passage that since man and the woman as well as the incarnate Christ all have literal physical heads on their literal physical bodies, therefore, the Father must equally have a literal physical head on a literal physical body because the definite noun "the head" is used for all parties concerned. However, it is being used metaphorically not literally. No question there is a literal head on three out of four but Paul is using 'the head" metaphorically not literally.

Likewise, "one flesh" has its only literal application to literal human marriage in a submissive relationship one to another. Paul is merely using this as an analogy for the SPIRITUAL relationship between the church and Christ with regard to SUBMISSION to the Word of God in their spiritual growth, which is the practical value of that position of submission. BTW Catholicism usurps both Christ and his Word denying they are in positional submission to the Word of God.

There is no LITERAL physical relationship between Christ and the church except in the mind of one who does not understand the metaphorical use of language and cannot discern between an analogy and literal.






Like most who err and are too proud to admit they have erred, you simply change the subject to cover your errors instead of honest admission you were wrong in jerking that text out of its context. Diversion is another dishonest tactic.




Keep your day job because Biblical exegesis is just not your cup of tea. Teaching is not dependent upon eyeballs, but ultimately "ears" as the most common way of teaching in New Testament times was by reading it to others. Just having external ears is not sufficient but one must have internal ears - 'he that hath an ear let him hear". The problem in teaching is the INSIDE of man not the outside.

BTW this text teaches that God's written word is completely "adequate" for "every" good work without the mention or inclusion of "Sacred Tradition."





Again, keep your day job as being an exegete is not your calling. Have you ever heard of the word 'context"? The immediate context here is not "how to start a denomination" or "the use of Scripture (although that comes into view at the end of the chapter), but the immediate context is "trials" and their use. Trials in the life of Christian are purposed by God to bring about 'patience' (endurance). You illustrate why Catholicism is heretical because they don't know a thing about 'rightly dividing the Word of truth."

Its funny you would imply our western American notion that something spiritual is a lesser reality.

How Silly.


"Keep your day job because Biblical exegesis is just not your cup of tea."

The Job belongs to the church, glad we agree with on stupidity of sola scriptura.






James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I exegete this as meaning:
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Maybe it only said that "spiritually" being spiritual means fake now.


James 2
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

I'm going to go ahead and make a longshot guess and exegete this as:

Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

 

[The Biblicist]

Its funny you would imply our western American notion that something spiritual is a lesser reality.

Obviously you have no formal training in the use of language. To say something is "spiritual" is not to deny its reality as God is "spirit" but it is quite another thing to take PHYSICAL analogy and demand God is PHYSICAL. Yes, "how silly" is the perfect conclusion of your reasoning.

stupidity of sola scriptura.

Like I said at the beginning, the true colors and the guiding spirit (1 Tim. 4:1; 1 Jn. 4:6) behind those who oppose God, and that is what you are opposing when you deny God's inspired (God breathed) written "word" is not final in authority.

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I exegete this as meaning:
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Maybe it only said that "spiritually" being spiritual means fake now.

Do you see the word "see"? James has just previously shown by some abstract teaching (James 2:14-20) and Old Testament examples (James 2:21-23) how man is justified by works NOT BEFORE GOD, but before men. "shew me....shew you" (vv. 14-19). However, it is true that there is no such thing as a man justified by faith before God "without works" as justification by faith does not happen in a vacuum but is accompanied by regeneration which "good works" are its fruit or evidence. However, neither Paul or James confuses one with the other. Justification "before God" is "without works" (Rom. 4:1-6) whereas justification before men is not without works. A man can "say" anything but that proves nothing to other men.

The illustrations of Abraham and Rahab were before men. Abraham demonstrated his faith by his works before his son an servant. Rahab demonstrated her faith by her works before the two spies and all of Israel.

Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

There is a great difference between justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works and justifying faith existing in a vacuum without being evidenced by faith. The justified man is a regenerated man and regeneration is being created "in Christ Jesus UNTO good works." Note the cause and effect order. Your position pits Romans 4 against James 2 whereas my position harmonizes both. Your position confuses regeneration and progressive sanctification with justification but my position maintains the Biblical distinction. Your position confuses positional sanctification with progressive sanctification and perverts ordinances into sacraments.

Yes, works are the evidence, consequence or proof of geuine justifying faith but are not the cause or the participants in justifying a man before God as that is done "without" works.

 

[Yeshua1]

Its funny you would imply our western American notion that something spiritual is a lesser reality.

How Silly.


"Keep your day job because Biblical exegesis is just not your cup of tea."

The Job belongs to the church, glad we agree with on stupidity of sola scriptura.






James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I exegete this as meaning:
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Maybe it only said that "spiritually" being spiritual means fake now.


James 2
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

I'm going to go ahead and make a longshot guess and exegete this as:

Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

The point is actually that a geniune reborn again experience will result in a new nature, new mind set, and there that will be SOMETHING to show as evidence that a real change has happened, not just a one time profession of the faith...

Those works happen AFTER salvation, and are NOT to be seen as being a cause in any way for the rebirth, but evidence that it did happen...

John Calvin expressed it well when he stated that we are indeed saved by faith alone, but real saving faith will also show to us saving works after that happened!

 

[utilyan]

The point is actually that a geniune reborn again experience will result in a new nature, new mind set, and there that will be SOMETHING to show as evidence that a real change has happened, not just a one time profession of the faith...

Those works happen AFTER salvation, and are NOT to be seen as being a cause in any way for the rebirth, but evidence that it did happen...

John Calvin expressed it well when he stated that we are indeed saved by faith alone, but real saving faith will also show to us saving works after that happened!

Matthew 6

14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


The problem with total inability is right here. God will not give you forgiving grace unless you forgive others first.

You would want the verse written backwards.

If the father forgives your transgression THEN you forgive others their transgression.

I believe what the bible says. I say amen to it. You deny this verse.



1 john 4
19We love, because He first loved us. 20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Our ability to love is already established because He first loved us. But notice you do not have the capability, CANNOT LOVE GOD, unless you love the brothers you do see.


You have the cart before the horse.

Look at this verse BACKWARDS and we will see what you WANT IT to say.

If I love the God I don't see then I can love the brothers I do see.

God decides how the system works not you.


The capability to love is present in all.

Luke 6
32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33“If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.


If your idea of Jesus existed he wouldn't give the sermon on the mount this teaching that left people shocked hearing it for the first time.

It would be hay folks if God saves you great, bye-bye. And that is it, not 3 chapters of instructions and warnings.

 

[utilyan]

Obviously you have no formal training in the use of language. To say something is "spiritual" is not to deny its reality as God is "spirit" but it is quite another thing to take PHYSICAL analogy and demand God is PHYSICAL. Yes, "how silly" is the perfect conclusion of your reasoning.




Like I said at the beginning, the true colors and the guiding spirit (1 Tim. 4:1; 1 Jn. 4:6) behind those who oppose God, and that is what you are opposing when you deny God's inspired (God breathed) written "word" is not final in authority.








Do you see the word "see"? James has just previously shown by some abstract teaching (James 2:14-20) and Old Testament examples (James 2:21-23) how man is justified by works NOT BEFORE GOD, but before men. "shew me....shew you" (vv. 14-19). However, it is true that there is no such thing as a man justified by faith before God "without works" as justification by faith does not happen in a vacuum but is accompanied by regeneration which "good works" are its fruit or evidence. However, neither Paul or James confuses one with the other. Justification "before God" is "without works" (Rom. 4:1-6) whereas justification before men is not without works. A man can "say" anything but that proves nothing to other men.

The illustrations of Abraham and Rahab were before men. Abraham demonstrated his faith by his works before his son an servant. Rahab demonstrated her faith by her works before the two spies and all of Israel.






There is a great difference between justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works and justifying faith existing in a vacuum without being evidenced by faith. The justified man is a regenerated man and regeneration is being created "in Christ Jesus UNTO good works." Note the cause and effect order. Your position pits Romans 4 against James 2 whereas my position harmonizes both. Your position confuses regeneration and progressive sanctification with justification but my position maintains the Biblical distinction. Your position confuses positional sanctification with progressive sanctification and perverts ordinances into sacraments.

Yes, works are the evidence, consequence or proof of geuine justifying faith but are not the cause or the participants in justifying a man before God as that is done "without" works.

I have no trouble with Romans 4 because its pointing out the law of Moses identified easily by mentioning circumcision.


He comes back in Romans 13

8Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 10Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


He wouldn't say this if it was your way.


I can say AMEN to all bible verses. I don't have rewrite or butcher the verses.

Your saying Jesus praised the lawyer for something that won't help him, that's brilliant.




1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.


Says you can have all faith. All faith is all of it. You don't have love it is nothing.

Faith Alone is false. It flat out says Faith without love is useless.


Back to James 2 the entire chapter is geared towards your error.


James 2
19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Devil has faith in Christ. He believes Jesus, even seen him face to face. That doesn't qualify the Devil for salvation.


James 2
26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Dead bodies exist. A body that has no spirit, it exists.

He's pointing out FAITH as a body. Works is the spirit.

Faith without works is DEAD. Faith ALONE is DEAD

It doesn't Faith with a side of fries is dead.

It only mentions faith ALONE.

FAITH is DEAD.


Just the opposite of what your trying to push.



Let me hear you say Amen to faith without love is nothing......


If FAITH ALONE inclusively was understood to contained Faith ,Hope, Love.

We would not be debating. Some where you have a special interest to get rid of "LOVE"

1 john 4
8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

God is love. Easy-peasy. We are talking about AGAPE.

But you can't reconcile LOVE is GOD. If I ABIDE in LOVE, I abide in GOD.

This isn't in evil's best interest because it needs to maintain a division between God and man.


Love God, Love neighbor, believe in Jesus. Its all one commandment.
23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

If you can tell the difference between loving GOD, loving neighbor, and Jesus, you got problems.


If you can tell the difference between Kindness and God you still have a lot to learn about both.

 

[Yeshua1]

Matthew 6

14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


The problem with total inability is right here. God will not give you forgiving grace unless you forgive others first.

You would want the verse written backwards.

If the father forgives your transgression THEN you forgive others their transgression.

I believe what the bible says. I say amen to it. You deny this verse.



1 john 4
19We love, because He first loved us. 20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Our ability to love is already established because He first loved us. But notice you do not have the capability, CANNOT LOVE GOD, unless you love the brothers you do see.


You have the cart before the horse.

Look at this verse BACKWARDS and we will see what you WANT IT to say.

If I love the God I don't see then I can love the brothers I do see.

God decides how the system works not you.


The capability to love is present in all.

Luke 6
32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33“If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.


If your idea of Jesus existed he wouldn't give the sermon on the mount this teaching that left people shocked hearing it for the first time.

It would be hay folks if God saves you great, bye-bye. And that is it, not 3 chapters of instructions and warnings.

Then paul would have told the Jailer to first forgive everyone that he had ever sinned, quit sinning first, show him some good works first...

Gospel was given to him there, believe unto and in the Lord jesus and then be saved!

 

[The Biblicist]

I have no trouble with Romans 4 because its pointing out the law of Moses identified easily by mentioning circumcision.

You are truly gifted! Don't you know that circumcision was not established by Moses and that Abraham lived 430 years before Moses and the giving of the Law? So it is impossible Romans 4 and "works" refers to Moses or the Law.

He comes back in Romans 13

8Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 10Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Again, you are a truly gifted exegete! Romans 4 deals with how to become a Christian while Romans 12-15 deals with how those who are already Christians should treat one another. So Romans 13 cannot possibly be a commentary on Romans 4 or the doctrine of justification or don't you understand the difference between cause and consequence?

I don't have rewrite or butcher the verses.

My, oh my! Keep your day job because if you didn't butcher both Romans 4 and Romans 13 than we have a brand new definition for "butcher" that has never been known to man!

Y

our saying Jesus praised the lawyer for something that won't help him, that's brilliant.

You truly don't understand a word of any scripture you quote do you?? Jesus simply answered his question and the question of all who would ask what they can "do" to obtain eternal life. His answer was correct. The problem is that no fallen can "do" the law as you were provide clear explicit texts found in their clear explicit context to show you. The law never justified any fallen human being and never will because it was never designed to justify anyone but to teach them what "sin" is and drive them to Christ for salvation. You really don't even understand the abc's of the gospel do you? When it comes to justification the Bible never directs a person to keep the law but to repent and trust in Christ, or don't you realize that? These pharisees were told that their gospel way of salvation made their converts "two more children of hell" MORE THAN THEMSELVES, and they taught the very same kind of salvation that Rome teaches - justification by works.

1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.


Says you can have all faith. All faith is all of it. You don't have love it is nothing.

Faith Alone is false. It flat out says Faith without love is useless.

Is there no end of your to your total abuse of scripture and ripping verses out of context? This chapter is dealing with the proper use of spiritual gifts in the assembly. Love is set forth as the "better way" or principle to guide them in how spiritual gifts are to be ministered. This text has NOTHING to do with justification.

Back to James 2 the entire chapter is geared towards your error.


James 2
19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Devil has faith in Christ. He believes Jesus, even seen him face to face. That doesn't qualify the Devil for salvation.

Apparently either you can't read or understand what you read or both. The context is speaking about justification before men. All the negative illustrations are VOID OF GOOD WORKS ALTOGETHER. Satan produces NO GOOD WORKS and can't. The fellow who said he would prayer provides NOTHING for the needy.

All who are justified WITHOUT works BEFORE GOD are also regenerated by the Spirit of God and "good works" are the fruit or evidences, not the cause or the instrumental means.

James 2
26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Dead bodies exist. A body that has no spirit, it exists.

He's pointing out FAITH as a body. Works is the spirit.

Faith without works is DEAD. Faith ALONE is DEAD

It doesn't Faith with a side of fries is dead.

It only mentions faith ALONE.

FAITH is DEAD.

Listen carefully, true Christians are justified by faith without works but not by a faith that does not produce works. Read it again until you understand what I said. Read it sloooowly.

If FAITH ALONE inclusively was understood to contained Faith ,Hope, Love.

We would not be debating. Some where you have a special interest to get rid of "LOVE"

Again, you don't understand cause and effect. No one is teaching that justification without works occurs in a vacuum by itself.Justification without works is accompanied by regeneration (you probably don't the difference between the two) which is manifested in good works. So justifiying faith is without works but it is a faith that produces works by love. Think about it carefully.

 

[utilyan]

Then paul would have told the Jailer to first forgive everyone that he had ever sinned, quit sinning first, show him some good works first...

Gospel was given to him there, believe unto and in the Lord jesus and then be saved!

He is telling him that.

23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Read my last post very carefully.

The flaw being committed is you are dividing loving neighbor, loving God and believing in Jesus.

One of the best things I can do for YOU....is believe Jesus.

Believe in Jesus in that language isn't limited being convinced he exists.

John 3
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

You would think opposite of believe is not believe in existence. But the word believe is packed, with trusting and obedience.

What does Jesus command?



Further more who is our Perfect example of Christianity?

Every fiber of Jesus' acts was love your neighbor. The entire mercy of God is Love your neighbor.

 

[utilyan]

You are truly gifted! Don't you know that circumcision was not established by Moses and that Abraham lived 430 years before Moses and the giving of the Law? So it is impossible Romans 4 and "works" refers to Moses or the Law.



Again, you are a truly gifted exegete! Romans 4 deals with how to become a Christian while Romans 12-15 deals with how those who are already Christians should treat one another. So Romans 13 cannot possibly be a commentary on Romans 4 or the doctrine of justification or don't you understand the difference between cause and consequence?





My, oh my! Keep your day job because if you didn't butcher both Romans 4 and Romans 13 than we have a brand new definition for "butcher" that has never been known to man!

Y

You truly don't understand a word of any scripture you quote do you?? Jesus simply answered his question and the question of all who would ask what they can "do" to obtain eternal life. His answer was correct. The problem is that no fallen can "do" the law as you were provide clear explicit texts found in their clear explicit context to show you. The law never justified any fallen human being and never will because it was never designed to justify anyone but to teach them what "sin" is and drive them to Christ for salvation. You really don't even understand the abc's of the gospel do you? When it comes to justification the Bible never directs a person to keep the law but to repent and trust in Christ, or don't you realize that? These pharisees were told that their gospel way of salvation made their converts "two more children of hell" MORE THAN THEMSELVES, and they taught the very same kind of salvation that Rome teaches - justification by works.






Is there no end of your to your total abuse of scripture and ripping verses out of context? This chapter is dealing with the proper use of spiritual gifts in the assembly. Love is set forth as the "better way" or principle to guide them in how spiritual gifts are to be ministered. This text has NOTHING to do with justification.




Apparently either you can't read or understand what you read or both. The context is speaking about justification before men. All the negative illustrations are VOID OF GOOD WORKS ALTOGETHER. Satan produces NO GOOD WORKS and can't. The fellow who said he would prayer provides NOTHING for the needy.

All who are justified WITHOUT works BEFORE GOD are also regenerated by the Spirit of God and "good works" are the fruit or evidences, not the cause or the instrumental means.




Listen carefully, true Christians are justified by faith without works but not by a faith that does not produce works. Read it again until you understand what I said. Read it sloooowly.





Again, you don't understand cause and effect. No one is teaching that justification without works occurs in a vacuum by itself.Justification without works is accompanied by regeneration (you probably don't the difference between the two) which is manifested in good works. So justifiying faith is without works but it is a faith that produces works by love. Think about it carefully.

1 Corinthians 13
13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

What is the greatest? Faith? NOPE.

Love is the greatest.


1 timothy 1

5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

Love is the goal of Christian.


1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.


You can have perfect faith, even perfect knowledge, even understand and know the mystery of GOD, ALL MYSTERIES. Know everything, Believe everything, FULL FAITH, can move mountains.

No LOVE? you are nothing.


The doctrine hates love. Because God is love.

You are not saved because of your faith. You are not saved because of your works.

You are only saved because God loves you.

The credit is not in your faith or trust. It belongs to God.




Love of God is a good work. To proclaim you don't need to love God to be saved is just silly.

 

[The Biblicist]

1 Corinthians 13
13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

What is the greatest? Faith? NOPE.

Love is the greatest.


1 timothy 1

5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

Love is the goal of Christian.


1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.


You can have perfect faith, even perfect knowledge, even understand and know the mystery of GOD, ALL MYSTERIES. Know everything, Believe everything, FULL FAITH, can move mountains.

No LOVE? you are nothing.


The doctrine hates love. Because God is love.

You are not saved because of your faith. You are not saved because of your works.

You are only saved because God loves you.

The credit is not in your faith or trust. It belongs to God.




Love of God is a good work. To proclaim you don't need to love God to be saved is just silly.

You have a small problem. Romans 8:7 describes the mindset of the natural man against God. Do you know what "enmity" is? It is a state of warfare. Paul says the natural mindset will not submit to the law of God. Natural born man does not love God, does believe in God and is without hope of salvation simply because he thinks it is foolishness. Have you read Paul's description of the characteristics of all fallen mankind in Romans 3:9-20? That kind of man does not trust in God or loves him. His problem is INTERNAL and it must be changed before faith, love and hope can exist in man. So you are going about it backwards, you have the cart before the mule. That is why Paul says we must be first "created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works" (Eph. 2:10). Can you see the creative work of God ("For we are his workmanship") must precede good works in us? Jesus said it this way, an evil tree cannot produce good fruit, first make the tree good and then it can produce good fruit.

I have put up with your misinterpretations of scripture enough. This thread has to do with the final authority of God's word not salvation or justification or regeneration or progressive sanctification, so if you want to talk about those subjects start a thread and I am sure you will have plenty of responses.

However, it is against the formus rules to derail a thread and that is what you are doing? A Christian will obey the authorities over him, and on this forum the authorities over you forbid derailing threads.

 

[The Biblicist]

He is telling him that.

23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Read my last post very carefully.

The flaw being committed is you are dividing loving neighbor, loving God and believing in Jesus.

One of the best things I can do for YOU....is believe Jesus.

Believe in Jesus in that language isn't limited being convinced he exists.

John 3
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

You would think opposite of believe is not believe in existence. But the word believe is packed, with trusting and obedience.

What does Jesus command?



Further more who is our Perfect example of Christianity?

Every fiber of Jesus' acts was love your neighbor. The entire mercy of God is Love your neighbor.

You are violating the forum rules! The forum rules forbids derailing threads. If you want to talk about another subject than what is assigned to this thread then please start your own thread. I am trying to be nice about this but if you continue I will report the violation.

 

[Smyth]

Da Liberals try to put Bible-believers in an unwinnable situation. If you consider the Bible to be the highest authority on the word of God (sola scriptura), then your position is invalid because because your doctrine of sola scriptura is your highest authority, and it's outside the Bible. If sola scriptura is inside the Bible, then it's circular reasoning.

Atheist's never apply even a tenth of the critical logic to their own beliefs as they do the beliefs of Christians.

 

[The Biblicist]

F. Jesus and the Apostles knew they were finishing the Biblical Canon

If you will remember the text it is a Messianic text and it predicts that the Old (the law) and the New (the testimony) would be bound and sealed as one book ("this word" - Isa. 8:20) as final authority "If they speak not according to this word it is because THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM."

Furthermore, it would be completed "among my disciples" and those disciples are further identified as those given as signs and wonders for the nation of Israel who were eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ and bore witness to his words.

The writer of Hebrews identifies them as the apostles with Christ:

Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?....

Which is directly identified with Isaiah 8:16-17 in Heb. 2:13 where it quotes Isaiah 8:17 - "
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me."

As the apostles died (Judas) and the ("James") others such eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ were ordained to fill the office as in the case of Judas. Most likely the brothers of Christ James and Jude were eventually placed in the office as apostles died out. Jesus physically appeared to Paul thus qualifying him as an apostle or eye witness of the resurrected Christ, and then taught him personally in Arabia which qualified him as a spokesman of the words of Christ as the other 12 apostles. Mark and Matthew wrote under the guidance of Peter and Paul. Indeed, Paul did not actually pen many of his epistles but used one of the brethren with him to actually pen the words under his guidance. Thus all 27 books were either directly or indirectly apostolic writings or written under their guidance.

Jesus explicitly told the twelve that the Holy Spirit would lead them into "all truth" and bring to their remembrance things Christ had said. He told them that future generations of believers would come to salvation based upon their preserved words (Jn. 17:20) and this is in the context of "they word is truth" (Jn. 17:17-20).

Peter recognized that Paul was providing Biblical "scripture" (2 Pet. 3:15-17). Paul recognized he was providing the written Word of God (1 Thes. 2:15). John understood this precisely as he uses the very language of Isaiah 8:16 with the final epistle by a living apostle (Rev. 1:2) and then does what no other apostolic writer does, he seals the book (Rev. 22;18-19) and anticipates the next revelation from God will be from heaven just as Isaiah 8:17 states.

However, the writer of Hebrews makes this abundantly apparent in Hebrews 1:1-2 when he says,

1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

It is clear that the writer of Hebrews is saying Christ is the final prophet to speak and provide divine revelation. Yet Christ never penned a single book. No, that is why he called his apostles to be "witnesses" of his words and used them to complete the written revelation which is "the testimony of Jesus Christ." He completed the Biblical canon by HIS WORDS through his appointed spokesman - "among my disciples" during the first century, those who bore witness to Israel and were given as signs and wonders to Israel.

Finally, all of the apostolic writings were finished prior to 100 A.D. and as Paul has commanded the gentile churches to share his epistles among the other churches, so the churches had in their possession the full New Testament canon of APOSTOLIC scripture or "the testimony of Jesus" before the first century ended. Many of the churches had the original copies among them for over 100 years.

 

[The Biblicist]

FINAL AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURES AND DENOMINATIONAL DIVISION

Recently someone suggested that Sola Scriptura is the cause of denominational divisions. However, that is absurd. What is the real source of denominational division is not the final authority of God's Word, but precisely what some on this thread have been doing. Picking texts out of context and then try to build a doctrine, or worse yet try to repudiate a Biblical doctrine.

As you can easily see our Catholic friends have done this repeatedly. When they have been corrected by showing how their text fits in the Biblical context, do they admit error? Not on your life, they simply keep jumping from text to text and then turn right around and repeat the same error with the same text again. Do they answer the contextual evidences that demonstrate they are jerking a text out of context? No! Just move on and repeat the very same error over and over again. That is the root of all false doctrine and all false denominations the very way they handle God's Word.

The final authority of God's Word is simply another way of saying God is the final authority as one cannot divorce Him from His Word as His Word reveals who He is, what his attributes are, what is his salvation and what he expects of his people. Only Satan and demons undermine and deny God's Word as final authority.

Here is what the Holy Spirit inspired David to say about how God esteems His Word -

Ps 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Think about this statement! His "name" represents his character and his authority. In past generations it was a common saying, "that a man is no better than his word." That is how God views His Word - it manifests His character, trustworthiness and authority or "thy name."

As I said at the beginning of this thread, the true spiritual colors are made manifest by those who oppose the final authority of God's Word - not the Holy Spirit but the "spirit of error." True children of God love God's Word and they will desire it as newborn babes desire milk.

A good test to see if a person or a denomination is being led by the Spirit of God or the spirit or error is to see if their attitude toward the written word of God is like David's attitude revealed in Psalm 119. Also, compare them to the final authority Jesus appealed to when dealing with his foes, and compare his final authority with theirs.

 

[utilyan]

Sola Scriptura is not written in the bible.

Jesus Christ, the hearers of our lord and neither the apostles practiced it.

Even the identification of the bible IMPOSSIBLE without an authority to pick out the bible for you.



Matthew 23
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Here Jesus Christ recognized the legitimate authority of the seat of Moses to the point what they tell you to observe, observe and do.

The problem?

The Authority of the seat of Moses is not established by scripture.

NO WHERE does it say well if you got a MOSES seat you need to do what they said.

Yet Jesus Christ recognizes its authority based on TRADITION.



Another simpler example is marriage. There is no rules established in the bible on how its done being traditional.

You have wedding rings? show me wedding rings in the bible rather then their original pagan origin.

The absurd idea of sola scriptura is a unheard for 1500 years, not a peep of complaint. Till a Catholic invented it.



Whenever a heresy appeared people go up in arms. For example the Arianism heresy, folks didn't believe Jesus was God drama ensues, And there is dozens of instances where gnostics or other heretics try to push a new idea and it makes historical front line news.

But yet the most pivotal focus of The complete final authority of the Christian faith makes no news, controversy or scandal for either for sola scriptura or against it.....till 1500 years later when Martin Luther invents it.

In history No one ever goes up in arms over sola scriptura or even real presence of Eucharist for 1500 years.

why? because it never existed. Bad enough no complaints over the appearance of some "new" religion that doesn't practice sola scriptura. But no one in existence believed it to even begin to form a complaint.

Had Sola scriptura been true you would have heard the phrase sola scriptura yapped across the centuries.

 

[The Biblicist]

Sola Scriptura is not written in the bible.

Neither is the word "trinity"! Do you think we should reject that too since it cannot be found in the scriptures? The words "Sacred Tradition" are not found in the Bible either! By the way can you quote anyone on this forum who ever claimed that the terms "Sola Scriptura" are found in the Bible? Stop for a moment and consider the irrational arguments you consistently present?

Jesus Christ, the hearers of our lord and neither the apostles practiced it.

Are you really serious??? Jesus consistently practiced it. As God in flesh he repeatedly said "It is written" or have you ever read the gospel accounts? As God he could have simply said "Verily,verily I say unto you" every single time, but he did not. Can you find where Christ appealed to any other written authority? Remember, you attempt to respond to what I have said here, that Christ was also the greatest prophet and thus his spoken words were as much final authority as scriptures. Moreover, it is the apostles that preserved what he spoke in written form and it is through the apostolic written "testimony of Christ" that Christ still speaks (Heb. 1:1-2).

Do you forget Paul's praise of the Bereans where he approved them taking the Word of God as final authority over ORAL APOSTOLIC PREACHING? Paul and other writers of the New Testament were prophets and could speak and write God's Word but yet outside prophetic oral utterances they consistently referred to the "scriptures" as their final authority.

Even the identification of the bible IMPOSSIBLE without an authority to pick out the bible for you.

. We all know that the Old Testament canon was completed and finished by those whom God entrusted with scripture - Israel - long before the first coming of Christ and that is "the scriptures accepted by Christ and the apostles - that is a historical fact.

We also know that all of the apostolic writings were finished and delivered BEFORE the close of the first century. The Scriptures provide their own prophetic tests of a prophet and prophetic writings and thus the Scriptures provide their own self-authentication. The full Biblical canon was clearly predicted by Scriptures (Isa. 8:16-20) and by Christ and by the apostles and knowingly bound and sealed by the last living apostle (Rev. 1:2: 22:18-20).

Don't you know that Paul said that God's word is "not bound" or in fetters by feeble humanity?

Matthew 23
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Here Jesus Christ recognized the legitimate authority of the seat of Moses to the point what they tell you to observe, observe and do.

The problem?

The Authority of the seat of Moses is not established by scripture.

NO WHERE does it say well if you got a MOSES seat you need to do what they said.

Yet Jesus Christ recognizes its authority based on TRADITION.

Are you not the same person that said one must study and learn the proper use of language and yet you are unable to see that the words "the seat of Moses" is a metaphor that merely refers to "the Law" given by Moses as final authority??? The Old Testament scriptures is consistently callled "the Law and the prophets" because the prophets simply exponded Moses. Jesus consistly used the name "Moses" to refer to the first five books of scripture. Jesus condemned the "traditions" of the elders (Mt. 15).

Now look at the overall use of "moses" in the book you are misrepresenting:

Mt 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Mt 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

Mt 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Mt 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Mt 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:

Take a look at the uses of "Moses" by the other gospel writers and it ALWAYS stands for the written scriptures produced by Moses. Of course this fact means nothing to you because the scriptures mean NOTHING to you except a way to validate the heresies of Rome by disparaging God's Word.

Another simpler example is marriage. There is no rules established in the bible on how its done being traditional.

You have wedding rings? show me wedding rings in the bible rather then their original pagan origin.

You have got to be kidding me? Since when are weddings rings necessary to a Biblical based marriage? Marriage is spelled out in no uncertain terms in Scripture and at the very beginning in Genesis 2:24-25 and in many other passages in both the Old and New Testaments (1 Cor. 7; Eph. 5; Rev. 19; etc.).

What you are demonstrating is the complete and utter ignorance of Roman Catholics of basic Biblical teachings and no wonder due to your attitude toward God's Word.

For example the Arianism heresy, folks didn't believe Jesus was God drama ensues,

Rome regarded Arianism as orthodox before it regarded it as heresy. Constantine was baptized by an Arian pastor. Arian popes existed.

But yet the most pivotal focus of The complete final authority of the Christian faith makes no news, controversy or scandal for either for sola scriptura or against it.....till 1500 years later when Martin Luther invents it.

You keep saying this, but you never address the Biblical evidence I presented with regard to Isaiah 8:16-20. Is it because you are not capable of addressing the context and show why my exposition is not contextually based? Why is it you can't demonstrate my exposition is not contextually based??? Is it because you cannot because you are not qualified to speak about right or wrong Biblical exposition because you are simply ignorant of scripture and thus ignorant of what you are trying to talk about and teach others on this forum? Think about that!