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The First New Covenant Sermon

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Dr. Walter

New Member
adisciplinedlearner said:
Do you honestly believe man can do anything to merit God's favor or acceptance? I do not.
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He didn't ask you if man can do anything to merit God's favor or acceptance. He asked you who are complicit in the act of baptism? Who is baptism dependent upon.

Your response incorporates your position instead of answering his question. Thus circle reasoning.
 
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Dr. Walter

New Member
Mark 16:15-16

Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth [active voice] and is baptized [passive voice]shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jesus places faith in the gospel BEFORE being baptized. He could have said "He that believeth the gospel IN baptism shall be saved" which would teach adisciplelearner's soteriology but He did not say that. This proves that Romans 10:10 occurs prior to baptism as there is no true belief unless it is with the heart. Secondly, there can be no baptism without first hearing a confession with the mouth that you have beleived in the heart.
 
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adisciplinedlearner

New Member
Brother Mark, You make the mistake of separating conversion from baptism, but they are not so separated in the New Testament. Consequently, you are creating an artificial and unnecessary division between them. This reminds me of the way hyper-dispensationalists make divisions between things that are not so divided in the New Testament. They do this in the name of rightly dividing the word of truth, but they wrongly divide it.

Jesus did not separate believing from being baptized in Mark 16:16. Neither should we.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
adisciplinedlearner said:
Brother Mark, You make the mistake of separating conversion from baptism, but they are not so separated in the New Testament. Consequently, you are creating an artificial and unnecessary division between them. This reminds me of the way hyper-dispensationalists make divisions between things that are not so divided in the New Testament. They do this in the name of rightly dividing the word of truth, but they wrongly divide it.

Jesus did not separate believing from being baptized in Mark 16:16. Neither should we.
Click to expand...
You can't hang your hat (and your salvation) on a couple verses in the NT that are a little harder to explain and understand than the rest of the NT. That is not rightly dividing the word of truth. What about the scores of others that you are ignoring that simply say:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
 
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adisciplinedlearner

New Member
DHK said:
You can't hang your hat (and your salvation) on a couple verses in the NT that are a little harder to explain and understand than the rest of the NT. That is not rightly dividing the word of truth. What about the scores of others that you are ignoring that simply say:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
Click to expand...

Instead of pitting these passages against each other, we should add them together. This will allow us to see the whole truth.
 
steaver

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
adisciplinedlearner said:
Brother Steaver, Thank you for your genuine concern about my spiritual well-being. I have not rejected Christ's church or God's family. I have rejected denominational Christendom, which I consider ecclesiastical Babylon.
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How do you follow the instructions to appoint elders?

How can you be every part of God's body when God says you cannot?

You are keeping yourself and your family from God's ordained institutions-the local assemblies.
 
steaver

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
adisciplinedlearner said:
Brother Steaver, Which local assemblies are God's ordained institutions?
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Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


This is the earliest account of believers gathering together for "bible study" (doctrine study) and fellowship. Why have you rejected this institute God has ordained by His word?

I find no exhortations in scripture to isolate oneself from other believers in the local community.

I have no problem with anyone forming an assembly of believers in their own home. But you are alone right now and need to get busy inviting other believers into your home. And as it grows you will need to appoint elders in accordance with God's instructions. And collect tithes and offerings for the furtherance of God's Kingdom work. You need to pray God for dirrection and purpose for your new assembly.

You did seek God on this issue, right? I pray you did not just follow your own heart and will. If it is of God then your assembly will grow and you will one day be given a title by the community. This will be your "denominational" label. Like it or not.

Welcome to God's way of gathering His flock and discipling them.
 
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Dr. Walter

New Member
adisciplinedlearner said:
Brother Mark, You make the mistake of separating conversion from baptism, but they are not so separated in the New Testament. Consequently, you are creating an artificial and unnecessary division between them. This reminds me of the way hyper-dispensationalists make divisions between things that are not so divided in the New Testament. They do this in the name of rightly dividing the word of truth, but they wrongly divide it.

Jesus did not separate believing from being baptized in Mark 16:16. Neither should we.
Click to expand...

He gave a correct order though! BELIEF in the gospel BEFORE baptism! You deny that order when you deny Romans 10:10 (which is found in the context of GOSPEL BELIEF) occurs previous to baptism. Therefore YOU are in disobedience to Mark 16:15-16! You do not believe Mark 16:15-16. You do not practice Mark 16:15-16 as you deny Mark 16:15-16a as the prerequisite for baptism.
 
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Dr. Walter

New Member
Yes, Romans 10:10 is carried out in baptism, during which a sinner repents, believes, and confesses Christ - adisciplelearner


A human being is either Lost or saved - there is no third option.

A human being is either unregenerated or regenerated - there is no third option

A human being is either a child of Satan or a child of God - there is no third option.

Therefore, if as you insist Romans 10:10 ("with the heart man believeth unto righteousness") occurs in the waters of baptism then prior to stepping into those waters that person is in the HEART condition described in Ephesians 4:18

Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

The words "being alienated from the life of God" demands this is the unregenerated state of the heart - "blindness of their heart" and demands this is state of understanding - "the understanding darkened."

Therefore, we should NEVER find precepts or examples in Scripture that place repentance and faith BEFORE baptism if Romans 10:10 does not occur until in baptism.

However, EVERY precept and EVERY example shows repentance and faith in the gospel PRECEDES baptism.

This is conclusive proof that your interpretation of Romans 10:10 is wrong and your whole view of baptism and salvation is equally wrong.
 
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Dr. Walter

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by adisciplinedlearner
The New Testament baptismal texts show that people were baptized in order to become Christians, not because they already were Christians. They were baptized in order to receive a double cure from the disease called sin, namely, the remission of sins and the reception of the Holy Spirit.

Your inept responses expose your doctrine as heretical and unbiblical as there is not ONE PASSAGE in all of Scripture you can show or produce where either repentance or faith did not occur BEFORE baptism.


Your doctrine, your interpretation requires, demands, necessitates that both gospel repentance and faith occur IN baptism and not before and you admit it:

Yes, Romans 10:10 is carried out in baptism, during which a sinner repents, believes, and confesses Christ - adisciplelearner

However, the most significant admission of your error is your own inability or unwillingness to tell the truth about YOUR OWN TESTIMONY given before that pastor/church for you to be considered for baptism! The proof is in the pudding, isn't it??
 
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Dr. Walter

New Member
Yes, Romans 10:10 is carried out in baptism, during which a sinner repents, believes, and confesses Christ - adisciplelearner

Show ONE BIBLICAL TEXT where gospel repentance and faith did not occur before baptism in the book of Acts?
 
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adisciplinedlearner

New Member
Dr. Walter said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by adisciplinedlearner
The New Testament baptismal texts show that people were baptized in order to become Christians, not because they already were Christians. They were baptized in order to receive a double cure from the disease called sin, namely, the remission of sins and the reception of the Holy Spirit.

Your inept responses expose your doctrine as heretical and unbiblical as there is not ONE PASSAGE in all of Scripture you can show or produce where either repentance or faith did not occur BEFORE baptism.


Your doctrine, your interpretation requires, demands, necessitates that both gospel repentance and faith occur IN baptism and not before and you admit it:

Yes, Romans 10:10 is carried out in baptism, during which a sinner repents, believes, and confesses Christ - adisciplelearner

However, the most significant admission of your error is your own inability or unwillingness to tell the truth about YOUR OWN TESTIMONY given before that pastor/church for you to be considered for baptism! The proof is in the pudding, isn't it??
Click to expand...

What in the WORLD are you talking about? I have told you the TRUTH.
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Paul said he thanked God that he did NOT baptise 'converts'. But he many times thanked God that He saved them --- while they were still ENEMIES of God. God saved them without water-baptism through baptism by the Holy Spirirt without which 'baptism' there are NONE saved ever in the history of mankind.
 
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