The Five Solas

This is why I stay out of the Calvinism threads. The doctrines of grace and sovereignty make more Biblical sense to me than the free will doctrines, but there are plenty of well educated, well thought out posts in favor of the free will position. I believe I am correct in my stance, but only eternity will tell.

Why is it that Calvinists (and guess I am one) feel the need to demean or cut down the other side? It is not a salvation issue, it is not a issue of heresy either way, and quite frankly, way too much flapping of the jaws goes on about it.

I do not see the people who are for the free will position cutting down the other side. I do not see free will posters using dead theologans for avatars.

 

1. Then you should stay out completely and not make these one-sided comments.

2. Why the sweeping generalizations if you don't have an ax to grind?

 

Been reading them lot longer than you have been here.

 

I am as much a Calvinist as you. If there is an ax to grind, it is giving those who favor the doctrines of grace and sovereignty a collective perception of arrogance and "holier than thou" which you are not.

I come and go to threads as I choose, without your permission.

While I do not agree with Skypair very often, he does not use phrases like "you are sapped of sound reasoning" and "you dont have a clue." Remember, fingers point back.

 

1. I will kindly ask you that when you are representing someone, take all that they say into consideration.

a. If the person was responding to someone else statements, find out what those statements were.

b. I will also encourage you not to cut and paste, without a full representation.

2. Beyond what I say here, I have nothing more to add. God bless.

 

1. I would kindly ask that you stop calling names.

2. Whether part or full statement, name calling is not right.

3. There was no copying and pasting. The full quote is given.

4. Beyond what I say here, I have nothing more to add. God bless.

 

Can you demonstrate for me where I've called anyone names?

 

"you dont have a clue" those are not my words, but somehow you have tied them to me.

 

1. Skypair, I consider you a brother in the Lord, but frankly speaking, it seems that your stance against Calvinism has sapped you of sound reasoning.

2. Like being born physically and growing up, we get to the point in our development, where through more knowledge, we're able to make sense of how the journey all began, but as a day year old child, we have not the slightlest clue.

 

1. What is the naming calling in that?

2. My second statement is an analogy of a newborn baby "not having the slightest clue" of what a grown up would eventually know. Please, read my comments in context.

3. Notice I said "we" including myself.

4. If I've offended Skypair, I will apologize to him.

 

Saturn -- I believe both sides are guilty of "cutting down" their antagonists with what they believe to be the truth. However, like Pharisees when they thought Jesus might be talking about them, both sides tend to take offense rather than investigate the merits of another's contentions.

And unfortunately, free willers see it as a salvation issue. Here's how free will sees it --- Calvinism is and "addendum" to Christianity (similar to "The Book of Mormon," the RCC Catechism, etc.) that tells people they don't have to, in fact CAN'T, repent and receive Christ in order to be saved because they can do nothing "decisional" to choose their own salvation. Obviously, that thinking is diametrically opposed to scripture. There is not an instance I can think of in scripture where those being offered salvation didn't believe in the name of Christ, repent, and THEN receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit (regeneration/new birth).

The citations that Calvinists use to "prove" their "doctrines of grace" are places where a person is getting saved --- they are instances where the process is truncated in order to show some particular aspect of the process (such as God's pre-creation plan to save mankind).

skypair

 

Mr. Lamb,
If all the Calvin-free will posts were as gracious and well thought out as yours, there would be no problems. Your thoughts reach a level of excellence I have not seen approached on this board.

 

If I was American, I think the right response would be, "Aw, Shucks!" Anyway, thanks. I try (not always successfully, I'm afraid) to remember that our posts can be seen by non-Christians as well as Christians. That thought tends to help me "put the brakes on" any rising thoughts of "retaliation".

Even if it really is as you say, I can assure you that there are other areas of my life where I need God's help to overcome those "sins that so easily beset me."

Thank you again.

 

You can't offend me, bro. :godisgood: I think that is the first key to taking anyone seriously is that you judge their comments to be reasonable based on the perspective they are taking.

As with us all. What is interesting in your case (and I suspect with many other "Calvinist Baptists") is that you chose Christ yourself (in your "Arminian days") but now deny that any lost person can come the way you yourself came. Do you know what the Spirit gave me as my first response to salvation? To tell my best friend so he could choose Jesus as Savior and Lord.

But this thing about "uncorrupted doctrine" --- isn't Calvinism just the "Cliff's Notes" for the Bible? Not even written by the original author, it's Calvin's and others' gleanings from the original work, right?

I can attest to your fervor and good intentions. You are, as it were, a teacher to grow others in grace. If only that were what was in view in your content. Grace, unmerited favor, is the love of God for EVERY man. Grace is that Christ died for the sins of EVERY man. Grace is that an offer is "on the table" -- a "covenant" already "signed on the bottom line" by its Author -- for the salvation of EACH and EVERY man who will co-sign. Where would YOU be if you hadn't accepted the offer? co-signed the new covenant?

Actually, this is the problem. We often find Calvinism in our desire to grow in grace but, whether saved or unsaved, we CAN find Calvinism as a "system" of explaining scripture.

I would also say that true "Reform faith" (not maybe the Baptist version) IS outside the faith barely nibbling on scriptural truth and most of its adherents, as in the general population, outside of Christ. And it is easy to grow in grace while not being saved --- good works have their reward! I would say that Christ's words to Sardis were prophetic of the Reform successor to Thyatira.

I would say that the most perverse tenet of the system is that it pushes people away from "decisional salvation."

As directed there by spiritual "guides." That sounds harsh but think about the other scriptures that those "guides" destroy by redefining words and contexts. You are arguing with Allan about a context that has a more viable explanation when Paul's addressees, "my brethren, my kinsman according to the flesh," is taken into account. "My heart's desire and prayer for ISRAEL" -- "Hath God cast away His PEOPLE?" Your historis and contemporary "guides" are not nearly so knowledgeable as you give them credit for.

Then tell me -- what decision of man does change the course of God's plans. Did God "lie" that saying He intended to destroy all in Sodom? Destroy all of Nineveh? Destroy all His own people except Moses? To send you to hell unless you repent?

Deny them -- but you now live with their influence upon your system of theology. Same as when Jesus said the Pharisees fathers had slain the prophets sent from God and asked, "How does godly theology come from such a heritage?" How, indeed, does Catholicism survive as "Christian" despite their defilement of the "incorruptible seed?" Those things I mention had theological consequences.

I believe I understand the mysteries named in scripture. There aren't any others (as some call transubstantiation, forgiveness of original sin, etc.). I "have a handle on" the NT -- even much of Revelation. What I would have you understand is that there are answers to Calvinism's insolubles -- they are just in the further study of Calvinism. Calvinism/Reform/Protest/breaking with the RCC could only take us so far but the answers are in scripture.

skypair