The Five Solas

Well, I'm sure I have It somewhere. I DO, after all, have the "mind of Christ." You haven't presented issues about which I haven't already consulted the Spirit and received an answer. I am, nonetheless, learning by our exchanges which means I have more to learn.

But I would say it is complete insofar as NT theology is concerned. And I can "see daylight" between it and Calvinism. Of course, none of that matters if you don't accept if you have no intentions of accepting my answers to begin with, now does it.

skypair

 

Sure I can! BUT I have not been as intractible and uncompromising as y'all have! That, sir, is one of MY complaints! I have learned that regeneration causes faith in all BELIEVERS. I have learned that God is totally sovereign over all OUTCOMES. I have learned the difference between the soul and spirit in salvation. I have learned that most Baptist Calvinists don't believe (or at least weren't saved by believing) half of the things they espouse and its the rest that needs "unifying" with the rest of us.

Y'all basically have learned NOTHING from me -- NOTHING! I suspect to do so would unravel your whole garment.

skypair

 

Just to avoid confusion as to who wrote what, could I just say that the words below were "Originally posted by David Lamb", not by Skypair as it appeared in MB's reply:

 

You're right. And so I don't let someone other than the Spirit, like some "ism," tell me which way to interpret the Spirit, either.

This is interesting because we all ought to interpret scripture according to what we already believed in order to be saved. That was the Spirit that taught us "one body, one spirit, one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism,..." If, for illustration purposes, one was "saved" by Calvinism, it would follow that one would grow therein, right? One would have that knowledge as a basis for seeing the body, spirit, hope, etc. toward which they would grow. Same would no doubt obtain if one subsequently thought they were saved in the manner Calvin describes, no?

But if Calvinism was "another spirit," "another gospel," we could never come to unity could we. If there is no such thing as "decisional salvation" like we see in every biblical account in Acts, then it seems clear we must build our understanding of scripture and of each other on some other hope, baptism, faith, ... everything. Can it be any other way, DL?

Exactly! Confirm your hope. What is your hope of salvation -- 'election' or salvation? Realize, Calvinism uses interchangeable terminology here for a reason. That terminology, "elect," implies that salvation is out of your hands. Is that the "spirit" whereby you hope you are saved? We really can't have any unity unless we start with the same "spirit," can we?

being first assured of the foundation of our salvation, right?

skypair

 

Me too (if we're talking literally)! :laugh:

skypair

 

Not meager at all, especially in view of my surname BAAAAAA!

 

I'm just curious Skypair not trying to argue but why do men feel that The Spirit's interpretation would be different than what the Bible plainly says it is. Understanding and interpretation aren't the same thing. To me the type of interpretation you're speaking of is the explanation of what the Bible already says. It itself explains God and His Salvation to us. Then men come along and reinterpret what it says all over again when all they needed to begin with was understanding of what they read. I believe that scripture alone is letting scripture explain it self. That way we get the real message from God through the understanding He gives us.( If we but ask for it) When we attempt to explain it to our selves or reinterpret it we wind up with so many different views of the same book.

No. it can only be the way it was intended and still is. Calvinism is based on what someone else interpreted. Namely Augustine. Some of it has changed from it's original view. The whole reason Calving and Martin Luther turned against the RCC was because the priest and pope had changed their doctrines. Thats why they're called reformers. Calvinism in effect is the old Catholic doctrine. If everyone would simply disregard there preconceived ideas and let scripture do to there hearts what it was intended to do by accepting it at face value the world would be a different place, a better place.

No it isn't.

I for one am looking for unity of the body of Christ but we will never have it until the Lord returns.
I admit that we must be a willing subject for Salvation. How ever Salvation it self is entirely of God. I hope your not saying that's Calvinistic, although it isn't there Idea. It's God's. We believe that we might be saved. It's something thing we must do however it is still God that saves us. If Salvation was based on those who just believed for Salvation alone. Then the sinner would have a just argument on judgment day. He could say I believed, I just didn't do what you wanted but I believed. Salvation has other requirements one is commitment, surrender of our will to His is another. Living a Christian life and being submissive to the Lord's correction. I could go one but you get the picture.

Our foundation is the righteousness of Christ His faith not our own Gal 2:16.
This must be so because it's His righteousness that covers our sins. It's Christ that is seen by the Father when determining our inheritance.
May God Bless you,
MB

 

MB -- we "cross-posted" to Daved Lamb here. Your [quote = MB] got stuck on the front so I tried to merge it so I could add DL's name. Anyway, much of my post was intended for him.

The origins of everyone's enterpretation is their salvation experience IMO. If you came to salvation being a Mormon, there are certain things in scripture that you would cling to with all your might, like "works" themes. I talked to an elder in SLC about tht grace of God and, though he had tears in his eyes, he wouldn't receive it.

Sadly, true. And Augustine of Hippo was influenced by the Greek/Eastern culture of the Empire which IMO brought "fate" into play.

Well, that sounds Calvinistic up front. All the work was done by God but if we don't do something, we don't get it. Last night I was reading a doctrinal book and it brought up Acts 2:38 -- "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, ... in the name of Jesus Christ ... and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." It edited the same words I did and look what it says -- WE must repent before we receive anything from preaching. That means that "efficacious calling" isn't for the "elect" -- it is or REPENTERS. Salvation and regeneration are not for the "elect" but for REPENTERS to Christ.

Acts is full of salvation accounts like this that "all of God" seems to exclude from consideration.

skypair

 

What ever man brings from what he use to believe before Salvation isn't of God. It's of the man and this is what I was talking about concerning our interpreting scripture. This IMO is what fouls it up. Preconceived notions.

My view may sound Calvinistic but I'm sure most Calvinist would certainly disagree that it is.
The will of man is important. Salvation is not forced. Therefore the man must be willing. There is nothing that a man can do for Himself other than being willing to believe. God draws man to hear His word. The man doesn't just come on His own though it may seem so to the man. Jn 6:44. Men are elected it's just not individual.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Being chosen for Salvation as we all are doesn't guarntee our Salvation anymore than it did for the Jews. Since Christ died for the whosoevers in Jn 3:16, He died for all man kind and there by chose to die for all men and there in lays, everyones election. He chose all men for Salvation. Those who reject Him or continue to rebel against Him will die. Those who willingly believe in Him will be saved but not because they believe or because of there own faith but because Christ died for them. God called us ,God draws us, and God convicts and convinces us of Himself this is how it is all of God. Gal 2:16 shows this very clearly.

At any rate Skypair we aren't that different from each other.
MB

 

Guy named Evans. My late Mom's book. Hoping to get something.

MB was talking about our will in salvation. This book distinguishes between belief and faith, the difference being that the human will is involved in faith. And of course, Acts 2:38.

You know -- in Acts there is ALWAYS an offer to be accepted before being saved or regenerated. How is it you still, despite all these examples, say it's not up to us whether we will be saved or not?

Today I picked up Sproul's "Mystery of the Holy Spirit" for reading over in Kuaui Sep 11-18. I'm still trying to "get it" -- to find some area where misunderstandings can be turned into understanding. :love2: You?

skypair

 

Not OTR driver, are you? There's a ministry to supply them with good Adrian Rogers tapes (and others) at truck stops accross the MidSouth at least. The ministry is called "Highway Harvesters."

As per your own testimony. I know. But some of these rascals do. You might be an American Baptist (liberal last time I checked) and Reform and eschew decisional salvation.

Yes -- conviction of the Holy Spirit, but not indwelling/regenerated yet. That comes after repentance and receiving "the gift of the Holy Ghost," right?

The "day of God's power" then is when the gospel is preached because God's power is in the word (1Cor 2:4 -- "My speech and my preaching was ... in demonstration of the Spirit and of power."). And I don't see the "irresistibility" of any of this demonstrated in any of the Acts conversions.

First off, that is not what Peter preached on Pentecost. Nor was it the message of any preaching in Acts. So do not make the analogy that they were elect by God and not by their own choice.

I also read last night "ALL the Doctrines of the Bible" which might help you in this. Lockyer quotes Scoffield saying that foreknowledge is past, election is present and predestination is future. And this past, present, and future are all the plan of God for BELIEVERS.

But as you can see from any account in Acts, believers are such by their own choice. Even the passage you just gave me shows that the Spirit and quickening power are in the preaching of the gospel -- not already in the individual. The hearer (anyone since none has an advantage) chooses of his own will to repent and receive and THEN receives the power and Spirit in himself.

That statement is NOT exclusive of the reverse formulation of it which you also give. They were ordained to eternal life but God knew beforehand that they would believe before His ordination to eternal life in eternity past, too. Or are you saying that He didn't know they would believe? That foreknown came before predestined?

skypair