Can you believe that their teachers misled people in this way? To say we do not have to repent with the intent to turn from our sins, and that our sins are something we are sorry for is to go against the Word of God.
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The Freewill Invitation system is a False Gospel
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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Can you believe that their teachers misled people in this way? To say we do not have to repent with the intent to turn from our sins, and that our sins are something we are sorry for is to go against the Word of God.
Why are you misrepresenting me! Didn't you read what I said to SF? Just because you might not agree with how I explained it does not mean that I deny repentance is necessary in conversion to the gospel.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Biblicist, tells us again what you meant to say.
Biblicist,
Stop contradicting yourself and stop being confusing! You know that you do not believe a person can repent, let alone believe in Jesus until they are already saved.
Repenting and turning from sin are not the same thing, but they accompany each other. Repentance is the realization that we are sinners in danger of perishing.
Now, once a person sees this, turning from sin naturally occurs. Maybe an analogy.
Have you ever hurt someone in your life? I mean really done something wrong that hurt another person terribly? I hate to admit it, but I have. Once you realize this, you indeed become sincerely sorry that you did so. This is repentance, realizing that you have done serious wrong. Now, once you do this, it is natural to resolve never to do it again.
It is the same with God. Once we realize that we have seriously offended a good and holy God, we should be sorry we have done so. If so, it is natural that we should desire never to repeat these actions again. We will fail of course, but overall we will have a new attitude that desires never to sin against God again.
I believe this is the change of heart. When we realize that God loved us even though we are wicked sinners, and gave his Son that we might have forgiveness, we become sincerely sorry we have sinned against God and hurt him. It naturally follows that we will try not to sin against God again. Our heart is changed through love, we serve out of gratitude and love, not fear.
Repentance is realizing you are a lost sinner, or turning from a false view.
Another example of repentance is shown in Acts.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here Peter preached to these Jews and proved from scripture that Jesus was the promised Christ the Jews were expecting. These Jews had been convinced by the scribes and Pharisees that Jesus was a blasphemer who deserved death. Now they realized they had killed God's Son and were pricked in their hearts. They recognized their dire predicament.
Peter tells them to repent of this false view of Jesus they held, and to believe he was indeed the promised Christ who died for their sins, and to trust in him for forgiveness of sins.
It would only be natural that recognizing Jesus as the Lord they would turn to obey him. That is the natural result of true belief.
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
I cannot believe I missed Winman's post:
HP: Winnan may be speaking of his own life, or maybe of the lives of those in his family or fellowship, but he has no right to make a universal admission of all in the Church as if though he is God and knows the heart and lives of all God's servants.
HP: Show us one Sripture that set forth any such notion concerning repentance. Show us even a dictionary that defines it in such terms. Winman is clearly off base in his post. Sorry, but he does not show a Biblical or even reasonable understanding of repentance in the least. He is reading notions of repentance in the play book entitled, Repentance According to a Calvinist, or those leaning hard towards Calvinism, not Scripture. :thumbsup:
HP: Winnan may be speaking of his own life, or maybe of the lives of those in his family or fellowship, but he has no right to make a universal admission of all in the Church as if though he is God and knows the heart and lives of all God's servants.
HP: Show us one Sripture that set forth any such notion concerning repentance. Show us even a dictionary that defines it in such terms. Winman is clearly off base in his post. Sorry, but he does not show a Biblical or even reasonable understanding of repentance in the least. He is reading notions of repentance in the play book entitled, Repentance According to a Calvinist, or those leaning hard towards Calvinism, not Scripture. :thumbsup:
All you are doing is advertising your own ignorance in great big neon flashing lights.
First, you don't understand what I said and it is obvious because you misrepresent what I said and can't even repeat what I said without perverting it.
"SAVED" is a past tense verb. It does not refer to progressive sanctification or future glorification or to what happened before the world began or anything that occurred before I was born.
"SAVED" means the object of salvation is PASSIVE as it is the One doing the saving that is ACTIVE.
"SAVED" means that IN regeneration by God or being "created in Christ Jesus" by God repentance and faith is INCLUDED at the very point WHEN the sinner is being regenerated - NOT BEFORE and NOT AFTER but AT THE SAME TIME the sinner is being created in Christ Jesus.
"SAVED" means it is an act of God's grace and this act is INCLUSIVE of faith as it is performed BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH and not BY GRACE outside or apart of faith.
"SAVED" means it is Gods Workmanship and thus NOT OF YOURSELVES, but a GIFT of God and thus NOT OF WORKS; because "WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP" as only God can CREATE us in Christ Jesus.
"SAVED" means good works follow and do not precede because "we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works...."
Have you been "saved" or are you "saved" or are you in a CO-Savior program where God does his part and you do your part thus CO-Saviors in being "saved"???
Winman a Calvinist?????:BangHead: You got to be kidding me! Winman did use scripture to support his position and explained it. You simply did what your buddy Moriah did - assert he was wrong but avoid dealing with the evidence he placed before you.
Biblicist,
Stop contradicting yourself and stop being confusing! You know that you do not believe a person can repent, let alone believe in Jesus until they are already saved.
Can you not read Biblicist? HP said, "Repentance According to a Calvinist, or those leaning hard towards Calvinism, not Scripture."
Hp is right.
Don't tell me what I believe and then change my words to make what I said fit your definition of what YOU think I believe!
The problem is that you are incapable of understanding what I said even though I break it down in little bitty bites, even though I spell it out clear and concise. You simply do not have spiritual ability to grasp words.
What is it about the term "when" you don't understand???? If I believed a person is saved BEFORE they believed I would use the word "BEFORE." If I believed a personis saved AFTER they believed I would use the word "after." I have NEVER used either or! I have always used the word "WHEN" because that is what I really beleive regardless if you want to accept it, understand it or acknowledge it. Faith occurs WHEN a person is saved and what I mean by saved is when they are regenerated, at the point of time WHEN they are regenerated.
You were going so good until now! The term translated "repent" means CHANGE of mind so to say repentance is NOT change or turning from one direction of thinking to another is simply wrong!
Regret is not repentance but leads to repentance (2 Cor. 7:10). You have reversed the Biblical meaning.
LOL Saying a person does not believe until WHEN they are saved is not different than saying they cannot believe until AFTER they are saved. You are not fooling anyone. The point is that you do not believe a person can believe BEFORE they are saved. Tell us how it makes one bit of difference to that if I say after or when.
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Biblicist I have but one question for you. How does sinning everyday represent a heart of Scriptural repentance?
One more thing while I am thinking about it. Does DHK give you infractions for insulting other members, like the personal insults you just posted against Moriah?
One more thing while I am thinking about it. Does DHK give you infractions for insulting other members, like the personal insults you just posted against Moriah?
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Make up your mind! Isn't it YOUR position that belief must precede being saved?????? Haven't you been arguing that a person is saved only "AFTER" they believe? So why accuse me of YOUR POSITION???? Read what you said again above!
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Like I said you are one confused person. The "after" position is YOUR position and you do admit I do not believe in YOUR position don't you??????
The "before" position is SGM's position who believes the elect were justified, saved, and uncondemned before the foundation of the world. I don't believe that.
The "WHEN" position is my position. Because I believe the word "saved" in Biblical context is a past tense verb describe an event where regeneration/conversion aspect of salvation takes place in connection with the preaching of the gospel. I believe that regeneration is God giving you a NEW heart (Ezek. 36:26) that is a BELIEVING and WILLING heart (Ezek. 36:27).
However, it does not good to share these scriptures with you because you will ignore than because you can't understand them or else you could give at least an expository reason why I am misapplying them. However, the only thing you can do is what a parrot does - repeat and assert the same thing over and over again - your personal opinion.
LOL Saying a person does not believe until WHEN they are saved is not different than saying they cannot believe until AFTER they are saved. You are not fooling anyone. The point is that you do not believe a person can believe BEFORE they are saved. Tell us how it makes one bit of difference to that if I say after or when.
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Gospel repentance is a completed finished one time act in regard to the gospel.
Because Moriah has been perverting my words, calling me a liar over and over saying I said something which I did not say.
I have repeatedly over and over and over again said I do not believe that faith occur before or after one is saved and he comes back every time and says I do too believe it. When I spell it out over and over again that I do not believe something and then spell out clearly over and over again what I do believe and then he repeatedly repudiates what I have said then either he is incapable of understanding what I have said or he is intentionally pervertng what I said.
You are the one who is trying to act as if we do not understand your mess. You are the one who uses confusion to defend your confusion. YOU believe a person cannot believe in Jesus until WHEN they are saved, not before.
You are trying hard to throw in more confusion after confusion. SBM’s position is the elect were saved before the foundation of the world. Your beliefs are the same as his, you admit this when you say, “If God elected someone like Jeremiah (Jer. 1:5) before he was born and ordained him to be a prophet then the one who chose him is also the one who gave him physical life/birth and the one who preserved him from death to accomplish His purpose or else his words are silly just like your question is irrational. Paul says God chose us TO salvaiton THROUGH sanctification of the Holy Spirit AND belief of the truth so obviously the means are chosen as well as the person and if that person died then the fault lies with God as it is God who appoints the time of death (Heb. 9:27) which makes God the author of confusion and really denies He is God if such a thing were possible.”
How does this change what I said about your beliefs? It does not change what I said it confirms what I said. You believe that a person cannot believe in God until WHEN God saves him.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Biblicist, when does faith occur?
Biblicist,
This is what you said. Now explain how this does not prove that you believe you are destined to be saved before you die, that you are guaranteed salvation. You DO believe you are saved before you are saved, for that IS the implication of your beliefs.
Let the reader see, that with Biblicists beliefs, he is saying that all babies and anyone who dies before being regenerated are the unsaved!
You also claim that Cornelius was a saved Gentile before hearing the message! Even though God says it is the message that saves! Even though God says Gentiles were separate from Christ and without hope and without God in the world! See Ephesians 2:12.
Your beliefs are against the Word of God in many deep ways!
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