1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Freewillers Shell Game part 1.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Nov 1, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 12
  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    One thing I hate about Calvinism is that it limits God's power. They say God is not able to predestinate without first limiting the freewill of man. I say God is able to predestinate and do it through the freewill of man.
     
    #41 James_Newman, Nov 3, 2006
  2. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    yada means "was aware"

    eido means to know 1st hand...or "see"

    Ginosko is a one on one...getting to know...or knowing intimately. As I said in the OP..this gives the right meaning, in that it means to know in a personal way. It is more then just yada...and even more then eido. It is very personal.
     
    #42 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  3. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    1st...we never say God is not able.

    2nd...You can say anything you wish. But I will go with the Bible.
     
    #43 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ginosko=sexual intercourse

    1. Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
     
    #44 Brother Bob, Nov 3, 2006
  5. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll take.... uh.. um..... shell number three!!! (ginosko, the word we were talking about)
     
    #45 Blammo, Nov 3, 2006
  6. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Foreknow = proginosko

    pro...ginosko

    pro = before

    ginosko = to become acquainted with having a relationship with....or...it could also mean in sexual ways. But it does not have to mean this the last idea

    All I have claimed is a close relationship as I posted in the OP. The picture is clear in the SONG...which I agree with.
    Foreknowing is about God loving us not just knowing about what we will do.

    Some on here sadly have only thought of love in one way.
     
    #46 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    How do you Pro sexual intercourse? Help!! I am 67 did I miss something?
     
    #47 Brother Bob, Nov 3, 2006
  8. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, in conclusion, foreknow means foreknow. Great!!!

    Now we can get back to the English. (I foreknew it was okay to stick with the English.)
     
    #48 Blammo, Nov 3, 2006
  9. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Indeed. Foreknow is the right word to use.

    But it is not to be used as ...
    yada ..... "was aware"

    eido ...." know 1st hand, or see"


    God did not just know about what we would do and elect based on this...which is what is said by freewillers. But God knew us intimately and predestinate us, because ...and get this...>>>>He choose us. God did it. Not us.

     
    #49 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
  10. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have just finished listening to Dr. Jerry Vines preach a very good sermon on the issue concerning Calvinism’s.

    I would have to say He and I believe exactly alike. I could not find one single areas of his delivery I would change.

    The message is a pod cast and was delivered on Oct. 8 2006 at First Baptist Church Woodstock - here is the web address should you desire to check it out:

    http://www.fbcw.org/images/topbar.jpg

    Actually I don't think I have heard such a clear fare presentation of this issue as it is given by Dr. Vines.

    Gordon
     
    #50 GordonSlocum, Nov 3, 2006
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    It must be used in other words as ginosko, is what he is saying.

    ginosko the same one found in Matt…."And knew her not

    His foreknowledge (to know as used with Mary) of a person is limited to those who are actually saved and glorified.

    Which is most surely in a "sexual way". Alway remember "context" Context is everything you know.

    I will leave you alone now, that we got that straightened out.
     
    #51 Brother Bob, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fell free to start a thread and post what he said. I'm sure you will have others to post with you. :)
     
    #52 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Completely blank page.
     
    #53 Brother Bob, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  14. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    So far we have really only talked about the meaning of the word. This took a few pages, but the meaning is clear.

    Now how about the logic of the freewill view? I'll repost and see if you have any ideas how this could work.

     
    #54 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
  15. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Clear as mud.
     
    #55 James_Newman, Nov 3, 2006
  16. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    right.

    I should have said to most it is clear.

    Would you like to disagree with this...?
     
    #56 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  17. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    0
    #57 Blammo, Nov 3, 2006
  18. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could it be used as yada, as in,
    Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew(yada) Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
    ?
     
    #58 James_Newman, Nov 3, 2006
  19. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    proginosko is the word used. Take your debate up with God.
     
    #59 Jarthur001, Nov 3, 2006
  20. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Apparently yada was used in the same sense in Gen 4:1 when Adam "knew Eve, as was ginosko used in Matt when Joseph "knew" ginosko Mary. It seems the Hebrews were not really strict in using their words as having the same meaning. I think anyone reading these two passages would certainly agree that both yada and ginosko were used as "knew" in the sense of sexual with Eve as with Adam and Joseph as with Mary for they both "concieved from this "knew" and brought forth sons, even though "knew" in Gen was "yada" and "knew in Matt was "ginosko" but both produced the same results, "conception". Eveything is "context".

    Now, Proginosko can and does equal "foreknow" or "foreknowledge", which should of been used in the first place and there would of been no confusion as I see it.
     
    #60 Brother Bob, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
Page 3 of 12
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...