The Freewillers Shell Game part 1.

I think the point is to show the absurdity of insisting that this word must have a certain meaning of the OP's choosing. I believe blammo brought up a perfectly good example of the word being used to indicate nothing more personal than observation, which was translated in the King James with the more than appropriate word 'perceive'. Why not let the context of the scripture tell us what the word means, as is obviously the only way to determine what sense the word is meant to be taken?

 

You used when Joseph "knew" Mary and she conceived and bore a son.
That is not "know" it is not "foreknow" it is not "how God loves His children", and even though the word "ginosko has several plain meanings, It is for sure the "plain" meaning in the case you used is "sex". If you want to say it don't along with your cronies go ahead, but it means "sex". You cannot conceive by "foreknowing" someone. You cannot conceive by having "God's Love", You cannot conceive by "know" someone except you use the meaning in the passage "sex". I will leave this subject now for you would argue a black cow is a white one just to be right. I know you did not mean sex when you started the article but you used a passage that did mean sex and that is what started the posting. All you had to do was not pull a "John Kerry", or a "Haggard". Stand up and tell the world that you meant that God has a "special" love for His people and we all agree. If it passage means "sex" and you didn't mean to say "sex" then fix it. jeepers Calvinist!!!!

 

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: Amen!

 

see............

 

There is only one side on this thread that brought up the word "sex". The word is not in the OP.

 

No, the Scripture of Matt brought it up but your head is so hard you will never admit it.

But, I have learned when you fellows say its all in the "context" you really don't mean that unless if helps your point. If it goes against your point you don't want nothing to do with 'context".

(This is what was used to make the point about "foreknowledge" and if it is what "foreknowledge" is then it puts a whole new light on the scriptures on who God foreknew.)

The Greek word comes from 2 words one being ginosko the same one found in Matt….”And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS”

 

No, the "word" is not in the OP. However, what do you think the "word" in the OP is referring to.

Do you think, when I do good deeds, I am not to allow my left hand to have a "close personal relationship" with what my right hand does? The answer is, I am not to allow my left hand to even "see" or "be aware" of what my right hand does. The point is, I am not to make a show of my good deeds; they are of more value when done in secret.

 

Totally WRONG. I never said that "sex" was not in the context of the Scripture cited. The OP wanted to make a point using that text with an idea EQUALY given in the context which is a personal relationship & intimate relationship. But for the sake of your argument, you are the one who refuses to admit the truth. This was the sole intention of citing that text. Period. The "sex" issue has not been denied. But that was not the point being made at all! And my friend the GREEK word used is the same as the one used in Rom. 8:29 which adds "Pro" and makes it a prior knowledge of. So if your going to stick to your "sexual" interpretation, then you have to admit that interpretation into Rom. 8:29 as well.
Foreknow - proginṓskō; fut. prognṓsomai, 2d aor. proégnōn, from pró (G4253), before, and ginṓskō (G1097), to know. To perceive or recognize beforehand, know previously, take into account or specially consider beforehand, to grant prior acknowledgement or recognition to someone, to foreknow.

 

I agree Bro. James. It never said God foreknew what we would do or not do. It says He foreknew us.

 

I told you "context" was everything and the "context" in Matt is not the same as the "context" in Romans and you know it. You don't believe in context you just say you do. Practice what you preach.

How in the world could He "foreknew" us without knowing about "us".

If God "foreknew us" that would inply that He knew we were going to be believers don't you think?

 

Obviously you cant comprehend what I am saying at all, so I'll drop it.
Just exactly what do you think He knew about us that made Him want us? I know, let me guess, "That we would produce belief in Him" Right?
But Bob, considering the fact, that God gives us the faith to believe, that argument goes nowhere. I mean, to say God foreknew we would believe, when in reality, He gave us the faith, what does that prove for your case?
And lest you quote Rom. 12 as a defence that God has given faith to all men. I believe you are competent enough to know that that text is talking about believers.

 

If God "foreknew us" that would imply that He knew all about us and that we would be believers right. Or did it mean He just knew we were out there and knew absolutely nothing about us?

 

I know & believe as you do, that God knew we would believe. No argument there. But I believe He gave us faith. I think you believe this, do you not?
If so. Then God knew we would believe when He gave us faith. So what does this prove, but that God knew the results of what He would do?

 

It proves that if God "foreknew us" and all about us that who would believe then He also "foreknew" who to predestinate.

When did God give us that faith?

 

It proves the case that:

1. God foreknew who would believe because He would give them the faith.
2. God predestined who He gave faith to to believe in Christ.

 

When we received Christ or Believed on him.

 

It was once said that when we get to heaven's door the words above it will say "Whosoever will may come" but as we pass through it the other side will say "predestined before the foundation of the world".

When you all get God's ways completely figured out you will have created a god after your own image.

I know I am saved andwill leave the rest in His hands. Amen?

 

This is a classic smokescreen for: "Just leave those Scriptures alone" "You just cant know the truth about predestination"
This a forum for those who like to consider what Scripture says. I don't know why people come in on this if they do not want to contribute.

 

So, you are telling me that God "foreknew us" and "predestinated us" before the foundation of the world but gave us faith when we believed. In other words we were already "intimitate with God" , already predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son without any faith?

So, I ask you. What is the purpose of faith or Grace?