KenH
Well-Known Member
So you are only referring to the specific people that Christ healed while on this earth, and not in a broader sense. Correct?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Furnace of Affliction
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
So you are only referring to the specific people that Christ healed while on this earth, and not in a broader sense. Correct?
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
KenH
Well-Known Member
A reference to Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
"Sin is a disease, a natural and hereditary one, an epidemic distemper, that reaches to all men, and to all the powers and faculties of their souls, and members of their bodies; and which is nauseous and loathsome, and in itself mortal and incurable; nor can it be healed by any creature, or anything that a creature can do. Christ is the only physician, and his blood the balm and sovereign medicine; this cleanses from all sin."
- excerpt from John Gill's commentary on 1 Peter 2:24
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
Sin is never spoken of in the Bible as being healed. Only diseases are spoken of being healed.
Jesus carried our sin and our sicknesses upon Him on the cross, so we no longer have to carry them.
Isaiah 53 NASB
3 He was despised and abandoned by men,
A man of great pain and familiar with sickness;
And like one from whom people hide their faces,
He was despised, and we had no regard for Him.
4 However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore,
And our pains that He carried;
Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted,
Struck down by God, and humiliated.
5 But He was pierced for our offenses,
He was crushed for our wrongdoings;
The punishment for our well-being was laid upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
KenH
Well-Known Member
You are incorrect. I suggest reading all of Isaiah 53.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
In Isaiah 53, sicknesses are mentioned and healing is mentioned. The healing corresponds to the sicknesses.
The New Testament does not speak of sins being healed, but forgiven and forsaken. The old nature, the old man, the sinful nature of the flesh, is said to be crucified, not healed.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Do you mean God is dragging Satan around and making him do what he does?
This is ultimately a “God made the devil make me do it” theology.
The catastrophes faced by Job were God's plan and He was 100% sovereign. However, Satan was 100% responsible for his misdeeds.
We can see a somewhat similar situation shown by Acts 2:23, "Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain."
We can see a somewhat similar situation shown by Acts 2:23, "Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain."
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
“God made the devil make me do it” theology.
Does the free range that God gave to Satan mean nothing?
There were only the limitations put on Satan.
Don’t touch Job, and later, don’t take his life. Beyond that, Satan had permission, not instructions.
If my post looked like what I've underlined, I apologize, as my intent was just the opposite. God is 100% sovereign in my life, but if/when I sin, I can't claim that I'm not to be blamed because "God made me do it".
Trying to parse God's sovereignty and man's responsibility using human logic is futility. Likewise, totally understanding how Christ could be fully God and fully man at the same time is beyond human understanding. God holds much about Himself in secret, but he has revealed much to us in His Word and we need to heed and obey what He has revealed. Deut. 29:29
KenH
Well-Known Member
I will use a human example. When I take one of my dogs to the groomer, I have a leash on my dog. I use the leash to guide my dog from my car to the building downtown where the groomer is. Now, along the trek from point A to point B, my dog might want to stop a second to smell something on the sidewalk or something similar. But at the end of the walk to the building, my purpose has been accomplished - I have taken my dog from the car to the building.
That is what I mean by "Satan is on God's "leash"; just as every creation of God is." God's purpose is accomplished.
By the way, here is a recent picture of Skye(on the left of the picture) and Lyanna. Skye is 11 years old and Lyanna is almost 11 years old. They are half-sisters.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Isaiah chapter 53 is about Christ bearing the sins and paying the sin debt of God's elect, those chosen before the world began and given to Him to be their Surety.
Isaiah 53:1-12
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
(emphasis mine)
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Your illustration leaves as many questions in my mind. I will assume the best of it. I don’t deny that God will accomplish His will in spite of men. I don’t know anyone who does.
You have beautiful dogs.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 53 is about Christ bearing our sins, but it is also about Christ providing physical and mental healing.
When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill. This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: “He Himself took our infirmities and carried away our diseases.”
— Matthew 8:16-17
Quote from Isaiah 53
Which begs the question(s):
Who sold Joseph into Egypt?:
20 And as for you, ye meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. Gen 50
Who moved David?:
And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah. 2 Sam 24:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. 1 Chron 21:1
Who enticed Ahab?:
20 And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him.
22 And Jehovah said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Ki 22
Who afflicted Job?:
11 But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will renounce thee to thy face.
12 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of Jehovah. Job 1
5 But put forth thy hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will renounce thee to thy face.
6 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thy hand; only spare his life. Job 2
Who tempted Christ?:
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil Mt 4 [Mark 1:12]
Who sifted Peter?:
31 Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: Lu 22
Who buffeted Paul?:
7 And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch. 2 Cor 12
Who killed Christ?:
10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even in him doth this man stand here before you whole.
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against his Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against thy holy Servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever thy hand and thy council foreordained to come to pass. Acts 4
