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Featured The Golden Chain Part II

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jul 29, 2022.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    AMEN!
     
    #41 JonC, Aug 1, 2022
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    @JamesL, @JonC, dopplegangers?

    It should be noted that @Van has started this thread and he is in your camp.
     
    #42 AustinC, Aug 1, 2022
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet we have perceived that for the ones loving God, all is working together for good, to the ones becoming "the called" according to His purpose. Because those whom God knew would be chosen based on their love and faith, He also designated beforehand to be conformed to the image of His Son, for His Son would be the firstborn of many siblings. And those He designated beforehand, in His Redemption plan, He also called (or transferred into Christ), and those He called, He also justified (by the washing of regeneration) and those whom He justified, He also glorified as blameless, righteous, perfect spiritual children of God, siblings of Christ.

    Many times an oft used word in scripture is not well understood. But by doing a word study where we consider all the verses where the underlying Hebrew or Greek word appears in scripture, or as used by a particular author, we can arrive at a better understanding of the message being conveyed by the inspired writer.

    Glorified has a range of meanings, but if we narrow down to how the Greek word is used by Paul, we can boil it down to two meanings:

    1) To cause the dignity and worth of someone (God or a person) or something (i.e. the Word of the Lord) to become manifest and acknowledged. Thus in this sense, it is something we do, by word or by deed. For example, if we follow God and strive to live righteously and avoid sin, we “glorify God.”
    2) To be exalted to the same glory to which Jesus has been raised. Thus, in this sense, it is something God does to us. Another word, meaning glorified together is used in this same sense at Romans 8:17.

    So just how have we been, past tense, glorified by God as taught at Romans 8:30? We all expect to be clothed in glorified, immortal bodies, at Christ’s second coming, our adoption as sons, so the past tense glorification appears to refer to our spiritual condition in Christ as born anew creations.

    1) Christ rose from the dead, so He was made alive physically. We were made alive spiritually when God put us in Christ, Ephesians 2:5
    2) Christ lived a sinless physical life. We have been made holy and blameless in Christ.
    3) We who are spiritually in Christ have been predestined to be raised (or changed in the twinkling of an eye) in glorified bodies.

    Paul taught all this in Romans 8, referring to us becoming brethren of our first born Christ, who have been called, justified, and glorified.

    The gospel of Christ.
     
    #43 Van, Aug 1, 2022
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    ????

    The idea that the Reformed Theology has not moved far enough from the Roman Catholic Church is a complaint that those outside of RCC doctrine have made since the Reformation.

    That is an observation, not a camp.

    Reformed Theology assumes the Roman Catholic Church was correct in much of its doctrine (it sides with the RCC against other Christian faiths prior to the Reformation).

    Your theology contains a lot of Roman Catholic theology with minor adjustments.

    Put another way, Reformed Theology is of a Roman Catholic trajectory. It is an offshoot of the Roman Catholic Church and this by choice. It can't, or won't, let go of its Mother Church.
     
    #44 JonC, Aug 1, 2022
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  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Jon, all views, that are not cults, are adjustments to what the earlier church was teaching. It's not like Rome grew out of nothing and is a completely different faith. It was certainly wrong in it's soteriology, to which you and James are closer to Rome than I am, but it is not wrong in all areas. For example, Rome's belief on the sanctity of life at conception is better than many Protestant traditions. Certainly your soteriology is much, much closer to Rome than mine.
     
    #45 AustinC, Aug 1, 2022
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  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your version is the gospel of Van as you rewrite much of the passage. @The Archangel has shown you your translation errors, so I leave it in his capable hands. It is clear you believe you are correct and everyone else is wrong. That is your prerogative to hold, but others disagree with you precisely because the Bible does not teach your gospel.
     
    #46 AustinC, Aug 1, 2022
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I understand that today's denominations are often amalgamation of prior denominations.

    My comments reflect both an observation (your soteriology and anthropology has not moved far from RCC doctrine) and my opinion (the RCC, as a church, was born apostate).

    I understand also that you are saying that my soteriology is closer to RCC soteriology as an insult, neither fact, observation or even opinion (as you do not cite examples).

    To be fair I also need to state a few (not nearly all) observations:

    Your view of man is the RCC view.

    Your view of the Fall, of original sin, of inherited sin, and of the sin nature is the RCC view.

    Your soteriology hinges on the RCC view, exchanging divine justice for honor/ merit.

    Your metaphysical interpretation of death in Genesus is the RCC interpretation.

    Your turn. What part of my soteriology is closer to RCC doctrine?

    I need to know as it often takes an outsider to see what we cannot. But where we differ is that I believe the RCC was born apostate as an organization. It never was the true church, and therefore Reformed Theologies attempt to correct their doctrines rather than returning to Scripture is the root of its failure.
     
    #47 JonC, Aug 1, 2022
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  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You have explained Van's Nonsense Interpretation, not actual exegesis.
     
    #48 Reformed1689, Aug 1, 2022
  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    So Van is guilty of adding to Scripture.
     
    #49 Reformed1689, Aug 1, 2022
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  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another You, you you post in violation of guidelines.

    This is all the advocates of Falselogy have, make up false charges and post them with impunity.
     
    #50 Van, Aug 1, 2022
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, Falselogy rewrites, redefines, re-imagines and alters scripture according to Dark Ages mentality!
     
    #51 Van, Aug 1, 2022
  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Hold on Van

    you called me an idiot in another thread. You have lost cred on this issue
     
    #52 Marooncat79, Aug 1, 2022
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another idiotic post, attacking my behavior because of apparent ignorance of the subject.
     
    #53 Van, Aug 1, 2022
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You added things that are not in Scripture. Has nothing to do with what I believe and everything to do with what you actually did.
     
    #54 Reformed1689, Aug 1, 2022
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  15. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    now I am ignorant
     
    #55 Marooncat79, Aug 1, 2022
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  16. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    When I read your long, drawn out post. It sure sounded like you were applying it to every believer.

    Are you suggesting that there are some believers that are not placed into the body of Christ?
     
    #56 JamesL, Aug 1, 2022
  17. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Holy Smokes! Checkmate

    Seriously. That's good stuff, brother
     
    #57 JamesL, Aug 1, 2022
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  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Two things.
    First, we know that both Paul and Peter helped guide and build the church at Rome. Therefore your statement that the church at Rome was born in apostasy would mean you are calling the Apostles apostates. I do not believe you are doing this with the Apostles I believe you are looking at a later time and calling it apostate. I would identify apostasy in its soteriology. In other areas such as eschatology I would not be concerned with what they teach.

    Second, your soteriology is, in truth, closer to Rome than mine is This has been proven over and over again in your synergistic approach to salvation and atonement theory.

    My view of man is that we are born under the curse of sin and that curse is only lifted by God's gracious choice to substitute Christ Jesus in our place. We are saved by grace alone.

    Now tell me how Rome teaches that same view...because...you cannot. Therefore your claim regarding me is untrue and your claim about the church of Rome being born in apostasy is untrue in its actual conception.

    Jon, you are wrong on many levels.
     
    #58 AustinC, Aug 1, 2022
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It's only good if you you are ignorant of what Jon erroneously claimed
     
    #59 AustinC, Aug 1, 2022
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another off topic post addressing my supposed poor behavior rather than the topic, pay no attention to these pointless posts.
     
    #60 Van, Aug 2, 2022
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