The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

[AndyMartin]

"And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” Jesus Is Equal with GodThis was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (Gospel of John, Chapter 5, verses 16-25)

Here we have a conversation between Jesus and the Jews who wanted to kill Him, because He had not only broken the sabbath, but called the Father, "My own Father", in a personal, unique way, thereby making Himself equal to God the Father.

Note what Jesus says to these murdering Jews. He tells these Jews who are "spiritually dead" (verse 25), that if they "hear My word and believe", they would have "eternal life". It is very interesting that Calvinism teaches that the "spiritual dead" are "SO dead", that they can never hear the call of God to "spiritual life". However, here we have the words of God Himself, where He says in verse 25, that these "spiritually dead", WILL HEAR His Voice, and those who "hear", that is "respond to it", WILL LIVE. Remember who Jesus is speaking to, the same Jews who wanted to murder Him, and He says YOU, if YOU will hear My words, that is the Gospel of Salvation, then THEY will LIVE. Yes, Jesus also died for these murdering Jews, because THEY are also part of "THE WORLD" that He "LOVES"! All of the above passage is directed to the Jews of verse 16.

Jesus says that ALL who will respond to His call WILL LIVE. Calvinism say NO, only those who are "elect" can and will come to Jesus. This yet again exposes the anti-biblical teachings of Calvinism. Now watch how the Calvinists on this forum twist their way out of this!

 

[SovereignGrace]

When Jesus said His Father worked and also was working, this was recorded by John..For this reason they tried all the more to kill him;[vs 18]

These that he was addressing in John 5 were the self-righteous Pharisees.

Here we see God's sovereignity over the salvation of men at work..For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.[vs 21] It is God who raises the dead and gives life to whom is pleased to give it, not man. The unregenerate are not seeking God(Romans 3 and Psalm 14) nor are they are raising their hands asking God to give them Spiritual life.

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life...[vs 24] Those who hear His words and believes HAS(already possesses) eternal life.

So the gospel in this is that the message of the Christ is proclaimed. Those who it pleases the Father to give life to, He does, and they are given ears to hear with, eyes to see with, a new heart and Spirit[Ezekiel11:19 & 36:26] and they respond.

 

[AndyMartin]

When Jesus said His Father worked and also was working, this was recorded by John..For this reason they tried all the more to kill him;[vs 18]

These that he was addressing in John 5 were the self-righteous Pharisees.

Here we see God's sovereignity over the salvation of men at work..For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.[vs 21] It is God who raises the dead and gives life to whom is pleased to give it, not man. The unregenerate are not seeking God(Romans 3 and Psalm 14) nor are they are raising their hands asking God to give them Spiritual life.

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life...[vs 24] Those who hear His words and believes HAS(already possesses) eternal life.

So the gospel in this is that the message of the Christ is proclaimed. Those who it pleases the Father to give life to, He does, and they are given ears to hear with, eyes to see with, a new heart and Spirit[Ezekiel11:19 & 36:26] and they respond.

What you say does not disprove the fact that Jesus tells ALL these murdering Jews, that THEY CAN LIVE if they listen to His voice and respond by ACCEPTING the Gospel for the salvation!

I really cannot understand why [Edited: Name Calling] Calvinists hate the so-called "non elect" so much, whereas the Bible says very clearly that GOD LOVES THEM! What a dreadful system of salvation which is not directed to "the world" as in John 3:16, but to some "elite" people who are so deluded by the LIES they believe in! May the Lord OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

 

[SovereignGrace]

What you say does not disprove the fact that Jesus tells ALL these murdering Jews, that THEY CAN LIVE if they listen to His voice and respond by ACCEPTING the Gospel for the salvation!

I really cannot understand why pompous Calvinists hate the so-called "non elect" so much, whereas the Bible says very clearly that GOD LOVES THEM! What a dreadful system of salvation which is not directed to "the world" as in John 3:16, but to some "elite" people who are so deluded by the LIES they believe in! May the Lord OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

God gives life to whoever it please Him to bestow it to. That's not coming from a pompous Calvinist but from His holy writ.

All those who hear WILL LIVE. We are not denying that truth. God welcomes all that come to Him. We are not denying that truth, either. However, who are the ones that come to Him? All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.[John 6:37] Here we see that ALL who come to Him, He will NEVER drive away. We agree that all that come to Him He will gladly and graciously receive. You guys seem to think we believe God places His palms against the heads of those He has not chosen, to keep them from coming to Him. That could not be further from the truth. God doesn't have to hold ppl down to keep them from seeking Him, seeing that none seek Him. They rebelliously reject Him, hate His guts.

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.[John 6:44] Again, no will CAN come to Him UNLESS He draws them. Again, all that the Father gave to the Son to redeem from the rest of the world, will come to Him, and those who come to Him He will never drive away. These who the Father gave to the Son to redeem from the rest of the world can not come to Him until He first draws them. These He draws, He will raise on the last day.

 

[AndyMartin]

I would like to hear from ALL (yes, I really do mean ALL) the Calvinists here, why they think they are "elect"?

 

[AndyMartin]

God gives life to whoever it please Him to bestow it to. That's not coming from a pompous Calvinist but from His holy writ.

All those who hear WILL LIVE. We are not denying that truth. God welcomes all that come to Him. We are not denying that truth, either. However, who are the ones that come to Him? All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.[John 6:37] Here we see that ALL who come to Him, He will NEVER drive away. We agree that all that come to Him He will gladly and graciously receive. You guys seem to think we believe God places His palms against the heads of those He has not chosen, to keep them from coming to Him. That could not be further from the truth. God doesn't have to hold ppl down to keep them from seeking Him, seeing that none seek Him. They rebelliously reject Him, hate His guts.

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.[John 6:44] Again, no will CAN come to Him UNLESS He draws them. Again, all that the Father gave to the Son to redeem from the rest of the world, will come to Him, and those who come to Him He will never drive away. These who the Father gave to the Son to redeem from the rest of the world can not come to Him until He first draws them. These He draws, He will raise on the last day.

You still do not address the main point. that ALL those whom here Jesus addresses these words to, are murdering Jews, ALL of whom He offers salvation to. This He only could have done sincerely, IF He had made provision for THEM also in His Atonement. It cannot be that difficult to understand!

 

[SovereignGrace]

What you say does not disprove the fact that Jesus tells ALL these murdering Jews, that THEY CAN LIVE if they listen to His voice and respond by ACCEPTING the Gospel for the salvation!

I really cannot understand why pompous Calvinists hate the so-called "non elect" so much, whereas the Bible says very clearly that GOD LOVES THEM! What a dreadful system of salvation which is not directed to "the world" as in John 3:16, but to some "elite" people who are so deluded by the LIES they believe in! May the Lord OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

God does not love everybody w/o exception, that is your emotions talking and not God's holy writ.

In the morning, Lord, you hear my voice; in the morning I lay my requests before you and wait expectantly. For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness; with you, evil people are not welcome. The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong; you destroy those who tell lies.The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, Lord, detest.[Psalm 5:3-6]

There are six things the Lord hates; seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.[Proverbs 6:16-19]

This 'God hates the sin but loves the sinner' makes for good bumper sticker theology, but shoddy exegesis, yea, rather good eisegesis.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I would like to hear from ALL (yes, I really do mean ALL) the Calvinists here, why they think they are "elect"?

I have no clue. I deserved to die and rot and hell, but He saved me according to His will.

Soli Deo Gloria

 

[SovereignGrace]

You still do not address the main point. that ALL those whom here Jesus addresses these words to, are murdering Jews, ALL of whom He offers salvation to. This He only could have done sincerely, IF He had made provision for THEM also in His Atonement. It cannot be that difficult to understand!

And you are not seeing the true deadness of those who are dead in sin. They are enslaved to it.[Matthew 6:24, Romans 6:6 & Romans 6:16], they are also The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.[2 Corinthians 4:4] These religious leaders had God the Son, Emmanuel/Immanuel in their presence and heard His words and sought to kill Him. Why did they do this? The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

That is why they could not hear His words. The reason why they could not hear His words is 2 Corinthians 4:4 and also but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.[John 10:26]

 

[AndyMartin]

And you are not seeing the true deadness of those who are dead in sin. They are enslaved to it.[Matthew 6:24, Romans 6:6 & Romans 6:16], they are also The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.[2 Corinthians 4:4] These religious leaders had God the Son, Emmanuel/Immanuel in their presence and heard His words and sought to kill Him. Why did they do this? The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

That is why they could not hear His words. The reason why they could not hear His words is 2 Corinthians 4:4 and also but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.[John 10:26]

Listen to Acts 28:26-27

"“‘Go to this people, and say, “You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.” For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them."

Here the actions of closing their eyes is what sinners do for themselves. This is because they reject the Gospel Message, not because the Lord has not chosen them!

 

[AndyMartin]

I have no clue. I deserved to die and rot and hell, but He saved me according to His will.

Soli Deo Gloria

your reply shows nothing at all. This doctrine that Calvinism promotes, was NOT part of the Church from the Apostles till Augustine, who is responsible for "predestination" that has been pushed by Calvinism. Are you saying that the Church for about 350 years was wrong? This doctrine has been perverted by Calvinism and is NOT what the Bible teaches

 

[Yeshua1]

I would like to hear from ALL (yes, I really do mean ALL) the Calvinists here, why they think they are "elect"?

because the Lord saved me, and enabled me to respond to the message of the Gospel and get saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

your reply shows nothing at all. This doctrine that Calvinism promotes, was NOT part of the Church from the Apostles till Augustine, who is responsible for "predestination" that has been pushed by Calvinism. Are you saying that the Church for about 350 years was wrong? This doctrine has been perverted by Calvinism and is NOT what the Bible teaches

Jesus and the Apsotles held to it, so would that be within first 350 years then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Listen to Acts 28:26-27

"“‘Go to this people, and say, “You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.” For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them."

Here the actions of closing their eyes is what sinners do for themselves. This is because they reject the Gospel Message, not because the Lord has not chosen them!

Except that Jesus Himself stated that those jews who could not come to Him was children of satan, thinking as he does, and that only those whom the father gave unto him shall come to him to get saved!

 

[TCassidy]

I would like to hear from ALL (yes, I really do mean ALL) the Calvinists here, why they think they are "elect"?

I am not a Calvinist, but I am an Historic Particular Baptist, believing in Particular Redemption, so I will answer your question.

Because I believe that Christ died on the cross for my sins, was buried, and rose again the third day.

 

[AndyMartin]

Because I believe that Christ died on the cross for my sins, was buried, and rose again the third day.

Yes, but NOT only the "elect"!

 

[AndyMartin]

Because I believe that Christ died on the cross for my sins, was buried, and rose again the third day.

Answer the point I have made from the Westminster Confession

 

[TCassidy]

Answer the point I have made from the Westminster Confession

Why? I have not quoted the Westminster Confession. I quoted the bible. Is the bible not sufficient for you? You prefer the writings of man over the word of God?

 

[TCassidy]

Yes, but NOT only the "elect"!

So you believe unbelievers will go to heaven?

 

[AndyMartin]

Why? I have not quoted the Westminster Confession. I quoted the bible. Is the bible not sufficient for you? You prefer the writings of man over the word of God?

cop you because you know what it says is blasphemy! This is written by CALVINISTS!