Exactly......saved by definition means...not lost, lol
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The gospel according to Paul
- Thread starter AndThisGospel
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We hae Kart Barth in the house!
- john 639 Esv
- And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
To be able to do tha would mean that you can break the sealing of the HS, and good "luck" with that, as He is God!
To be able to do that would mean that you can break the sealing of the HS, and good "luck" with that, as He is God!
It's pretty obvious. The warning is to those who think they're saved but are deceiving themselves.
'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, "You must be born again"' (John 3:6-7).
You are reading the text incorrectly. I explained it earlier, but of course you ignored me.
"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.....' He does not say, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe." Still less does He say, "You used to be one of My sheep but because you have stopped believing you have miraculously morphed into a goat.
Christ's sheep are a particular and distinctive breed. You can recognize them by their ears and their feet.
"My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me" (John 10:27). If they do not hear the Shepherd's voice or if they cease to follow Him, that is an indication that they are of a different breed.
They believe in Him because thy are His own, not believing to become His own...
AndThisGospel
Member
This is a self-righteous conclusion. What you are presenting is "I-ism". I'm important, so God saved me, but those others, God hates. What utter nonsense.
AndThisGospel
Member
"For God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all." Rom 11:32
"There is no one righteous, not even one" Rom 3:10
Since all are sinners God has mercy upon all.
The problem is some are righteous in their own eyes. That is why Christ said, "I didn't come to save the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
That doesn't mean "in Christ Jesus" God has not had mercy upon all. It means the self-righteous reject His mercy from under law to under grace.
"There is no one righteous, not even one" Rom 3:10
Since all are sinners God has mercy upon all.
The problem is some are righteous in their own eyes. That is why Christ said, "I didn't come to save the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
That doesn't mean "in Christ Jesus" God has not had mercy upon all. It means the self-righteous reject His mercy from under law to under grace.
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Amen, I AGREE.
I agree we Roman Catholics are the top sinners of all time.
Galatians 5
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
He is warning Catholics when he says "I WARN YOU"
Satan says everyone has eternal life and can't lose it, that was the first pitch he ever made.
WILL Satan lose his eternal life?
Luke 20
36for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Jesus Christ says Angels have eternal life. Try pulling "Satan was never an angel in the first place".
2 peter 2
4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8(for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, 10and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.
Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties, 11whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. 12But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 13suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, 14having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; 15forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
17These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
The only way to know the way of righteousness is if your saved. So who is this fellah better off never knowing the way of righteousness, better off never having escaped the defilements of the world, better off not knowing Jesus Christ, One who followed the holy commandment handed to them and turned away from it? Someone who was washed clean then returns to sin.
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Not the slightest attempt to deal with the text, merely a resort to bluster and insult.
In English soccer parlance, this is known as playing the man and not the ball.
Is Utilyan giving you lessons?
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All are sinners, but quite plainly God does not have mercy on all. 'For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion"' (Romans 9:15, quoting Exodus 33:19). Romans 11, like Romans 2-3, is dealing with Jews and Gentiles. 'For God has committed them all [Jews and Gentiles alike] to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all [Jews and Gentiles alike]'
It's helpful to quote the text correctly. Mark 2:17. "I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." If our Lord is speaking of the self-righteous, then He is not even calling such people, much less saving them. If people are not saved, it means that God, for His own high and holy reasons, has not had mercy on them QED.
AndThisGospel
Member
I was referring to this statement: "that is an indication that they are of a different breed."
That is your statement and the last time I checked you do not have a book in the Bible.
There is only one breed of humans presented in the Bible: Fallen, sinful humans all of the same breed.
"There is no one righteous, not even one" Rom 3:10
Since all are of the same breed, "...God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all." Rom 11:32
And God has shown mercy upon all in "justifying all men unto life" in the doing and dying of Christ. The problem is some desire to enter heaven another way then Christ Jesus. To this idea God says, "
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
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AndThisGospel
Member
Rom 9:15 For He (God) says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.”
Paul is quoting from Ex 33:19. What was the Issue? Idolatry. Idolatry is equivalent to rejecting God for another god.
Let's go to Romans 1:21 "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles."
That's idolatry....
25 "They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."
Today, in the USA, men do not generally worship images....They worship their intellects. They glory not in Christ Jesus, but self.
But Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
God the Father will have compassion & mercy on the believer who comes to Him through Christ Jesus, but to the one who rejects Christ, the Father will not have compassion & mercy.
Christ "has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death (see Rom 5:10/2 Cor 5:14), in order to present you before Him (God the Father) holy and blameless and beyond reproach—if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister." Col 1:22-23
Paul is quoting from Ex 33:19. What was the Issue? Idolatry. Idolatry is equivalent to rejecting God for another god.
Let's go to Romans 1:21 "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles."
That's idolatry....
25 "They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."
Today, in the USA, men do not generally worship images....They worship their intellects. They glory not in Christ Jesus, but self.
But Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
God the Father will have compassion & mercy on the believer who comes to Him through Christ Jesus, but to the one who rejects Christ, the Father will not have compassion & mercy.
Christ "has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death (see Rom 5:10/2 Cor 5:14), in order to present you before Him (God the Father) holy and blameless and beyond reproach—if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister." Col 1:22-23
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AndThisGospel
Member
"If" - "Did you Calvinist get that? If is a conjunction. "If" is conditional. If the believer, who has accepted salvation "in Christ", continues in the faith he will ultimately have salvation. But, if he turns back, he is finished.
Your ultimate salvation depends on you keeping your faith in Christ Jesus firm until the end. "The end" might be the end of the world or the end of your life.
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13
As long as your faith is "in Christ" He will present you before the Father holy & blameless. But if you reject His high Priestly ministry you must present yourself before the Father and His law in the judgment. The latter brings the curse, the 2nd death.
All are sinners, and in Christ, the Father has chosen unto Himself a Remnant to be saved, same way that He had a faithful remnant in Israel!
That promise refersto ONLY the elect and saved in Christ, NOT to all humanity!
The if there is actually a condition that is stating thatit is assumed that they will be continuing in their faith!
AndThisGospel
Member
No, He didn't predestine them for damnation...
Context:
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved"
Who is the remnant, those who Christ personally picked out, or something else?
Rom 8:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Israel was lost because they rejected salvation by faith alone....Instead they sought to be justified by their goodness....
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AndThisGospel
Member
Rom 11:2 Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”?4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
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