The great battle against sin

[evangelist6589]

Brother Paul Washer The Gospel Call and True Conversion pp. 12

On the other hand, regardless of the progress a believer has made in sanctification, even the most mature one will find the Christian life to be a great struggle against sin with frequent battles, great victories, and discouraging defeats.

Gospel Assurance and Warnings pp. 39

Third, the evidence of genuine conversion is not sinless perfection but a life marked by genuine repentance and confession.

Several times in the chapter does Washer states the above using different words but the phrase sinless perfection appears in all of them. This all goes contrary to what some of you believe about a certain theological word which I won't mention for unity's sake. No its not about being perfect, but about being genuinely converted and having a battle against sin which sometimes will be a losing affair. Those true believers in Christ are far from perfect and will sometimes fall into sin. But the evidence that a person is truly born again is that he continues to repent of his sin.

I encourage folks to buy any of the books in the Recovering the Gospel Series for it will awake you up to sin like no other.

 

[blessedwife318]

 

[saved41199]

I encourage folks to buy any of the books in the Recovering the Gospel Series for it will awake you up to sin like no other.

And the bible doesn't??????

 

[Reynolds]

Brother Paul Washer The Gospel Call and True Conversion pp. 12

On the other hand, regardless of the progress a believer has made in sanctification, even the most mature one will find the Christian life to be a great struggle against sin with frequent battles, great victories, and discouraging defeats.

Gospel Assurance and Warnings pp. 39

Third, the evidence of genuine conversion is not sinless perfection but a life marked by genuine repentance and confession.

Several times in the chapter does Washer states the above using different words but the phrase sinless perfection appears in all of them. This all goes contrary to what some of you believe about a certain theological word which I won't mention for unity's sake. No its not about being perfect, but about being genuinely converted and having a battle against sin which sometimes will be a losing affair. Those true believers in Christ are far from perfect and will sometimes fall into sin. But the evidence that a person is truly born again is that he continues to repent of his sin.

I encourage folks to buy any of the books in the Recovering the Gospel Series for it will awake you up to sin like no other.

I think someone would have to have a very hard heart to need awakened to sin.

 

[saved41199]

On the other hand, regardless of the progress a believer has made in sanctification, even the most mature one will find the Christian life to be a great struggle against sin with frequent battles, great victories, and discouraging defeats.

If you're having a "great struggle" with sin in your life, I think maybe instead of blowing money on books...you might be better served by getting into your bible and figure out real quick that doing the same thing over and over will not bring you different results. A bible, a journal and an accountability partner will do more for your Christian walk than anything else.

It seems to me that certain "Christian" authors put out books with attention grabbing titles, to get someone's attention to their product, which may or may not be orthodox in theology, just to make a buck. Get everyone to buy the latest and greatest "revelation" and latest and greatest fad (See prayer of Jabez, etc.).

Be a Berean. Search the scriptures every day. Keep the word in your mind and heart. Save your money.

 

[JonC]

Washer makes some very good points in the video. As @evangelist6589 points out, we can’t look to our spouses to be perfect and sinless. And as Paul Washer points out, “how would we ever learn unconditional love if you were married to someone who met all the conditions?”

Here Washer says something that every Christian should hear – “The main purpose of marriage is that through your marriage you become conformed to the image of Jesus Christ”. When our spouses fail to meet our expectations (and they will, just as we will fail to meet theirs) we must remember that we are in an unbreakable and unconditional bond as husbands are called to love their wives just as Christ loved the Church – unconditionally.

If you are married then your marriage (how you love your wife) is a direct reflection of your walk with Christ. Either we love unconditionally as Christ loves the Church or we love conditionally based on our own desires as we walk in darkness. I am afraid the worldly idea of marriage has and is creeping into our churches (and members simply look the other way). But the OP is on target. The Christian must live a life fearing the consequences of sin (for God will judge impartially our deeds).

Aside from the Bible, "Mortification of Sin" by John Owen is probably my favorite on this topic.

 

[saved41199]

If you are married then your marriage (how you love your wife) is a direct reflection of your walk with Christ. Either we love unconditionally as Christ loves the Church or we love conditionally based on our own desires as we walk in darkness. I am afraid the worldly idea of marriage has and is creeping into our churches (and members simply look the other way). But the OP is on target. The Christian must live a life fearing the consequences of sin (for God will judge impartially our deeds).

The last 2 Sunday nights at church dealt with this very topic...again, I don't need videos or some expensive book...I have a bible, I have a husband who models that unconditional love for me all day every day, and I have a wonderful pastor who's not afraid to preach the hard things.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I completely agree with you. Many times today a form of "cheap grace" is preached that says that you can punch your ticket to Heaven merely by going forward once 20 years ago and accepting an alter call. This is NOT what the Bible calls a genuine conversion experience. There are many verses in the New Testament supporting this perspective and Southern Baptists used to support it. The phrase "All real believers endure to the end. Their continuance in well-doing is the mark which distinguishes them from mere professors." was in the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message but then removed from later updates. This came from the bedrock 1833 New Hampshire Confession and still is help to by other Baptist groups such as American Baptists as well as most other Christian denominations such as the Methodists. This is a very serious watering down of the SBC statement of faith and needs to be addressed. It's not a matter odfdiscipleship as many assert. It's a matter of salvation.

 

[Rob_BW]

Ok, looks and wealth might be one thing, but categorizing having great conversations as a display of selfishness when picking a spouse seems a bit over the top.

I mean, I am allowed to like things about my wife, right?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Brother Paul Washer The Gospel Call and True Conversion pp. 12

On the other hand, regardless of the progress a believer has made in sanctification, even the most mature one will find the Christian life to be a great struggle against sin with frequent battles, great victories, and discouraging defeats.

I've listened to Washer a few times and he does not seem to understand the teachings of Jesus very well.

Jesus says to us:

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
(Matthew 11:28-30)​

Jesus describes life with Him as rest, as effort (yoke), as learning (yoke), as easy, and being responsible for a light burden. I have found this to be quite true. That stands in contrast to his description of a "great struggle against sin."

The secret of the Christian life is that one does not focus on sin eradication, but on positive obedience to Christ in the formation of the character, which has the effect of undermining the power and pull of sin in our lives. If we focus on sin instead of obedience to Jesus, we will fail every time in the long term because our character will not be transformed.

A tree is known by its fruit. We must enter into the life of Jesus (positive obedience in discipleship) to make the tree good, instead of focusing on plucking off the bad fruit and being otherwise fruitless.

 

[evangelist6589]

I've listened to Washer a few times and he does not seem to understand the teachings of Jesus very well.

Jesus says to us:

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
(Matthew 11:28-30)​

Jesus describes life with Him as rest, as effort (yoke), as learning (yoke), as easy, and being responsible for a light burden. I have found this to be quite true. That stands in contrast to his description of a "great struggle against sin."

The secret of the Christian life is that one does not focus on sin eradication, but on positive obedience to Christ in the formation of the character, which has the effect of undermining the power and pull of sin in our lives. If we focus on sin instead of obedience to Jesus, we will fail every time in the long term because our character will not be transformed.

A tree is known by its fruit. We must enter into the life of Jesus (positive obedience in discipleship) to make the tree good, instead of focusing on plucking off the bad fruit and being otherwise fruitless.

But have you read the books that I got the quotes from? HIs books dive into his theology far deeper than the sermons.

 

[evangelist6589]

I completely agree with you. Many times today a form of "cheap grace" is preached that says that you can punch your ticket to Heaven merely by going forward once 20 years ago and accepting an alter call. This is NOT what the Bible calls a genuine conversion experience. There are many verses in the New Testament supporting this perspective and Southern Baptists used to support it. The phrase "All real believers endure to the end. Their continuance in well-doing is the mark which distinguishes them from mere professors." was in the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message but then removed from later updates. This came from the bedrock 1833 New Hampshire Confession and still is help to by other Baptist groups such as American Baptists as well as most other Christian denominations such as the Methodists. This is a very serious watering down of the SBC statement of faith and needs to be addressed. It's not a matter odfdiscipleship as many assert. It's a matter of salvation.

Its one reason why Washer seeks to preach Biblical doctrine in the weak SBC domination.

 

[Baptist Believer]

But have you read the books that I got the quotes from? HIs books dive into his theology far deeper than the sermons.

No. His sermons reflect a basic misunderstanding of the Christian life, so why should I expect his "deeper" materials to be better? The theology in his sermons is weak and his presentation is designed to make people uncomfortable. Lots of preachers do that when they cannot trust the Spirit to do the work of convicting.

Also, I have no compelling need to read his writing. I haven't heard him say anyone (or have seen any quotes from him) that are extraordinary or thought-provoking.

Moreover, I spend most of my time in the scriptures. I'm carefully working through the Gospel of Luke, among other things, carefully paying attention to the theme of final judgement. Where are you in your systematic study of the scriptures?

 

[evangelist6589]

No. His sermons reflect a basic misunderstanding of the Christian life, so why should I expect his "deeper" materials to be better? The theology in his sermons is weak and his presentation is designed to make people uncomfortable. Lots of preachers do that when they cannot trust the Spirit to do the work of convicting.

Also, I have no compelling need to read his writing. I haven't heard him say anyone (or have seen any quotes from him) that are extraordinary or thought-provoking.

Moreover, I spend most of my time in the scriptures. I'm carefully working through the Gospel of Luke, among other things, carefully paying attention to the theme of final judgement. Where are you in your systematic study of the scriptures?

Well that's your opinion and you are wrong. His books are used at certain Calvinist seminaries as I have seen folks on FB post pics of his books as their required reading.

You know when you go to school you are required to read more than just the Bible but books that help one understand the Bible better. You do not like this because you want to read and interpret any way you please.

I am going through the Bible on MP3 CD.

 

[evangelist6589]

I've listened to Washer a few times and he does not seem to understand the teachings of Jesus very well.

Jesus says to us:

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
(Matthew 11:28-30)​

Jesus describes life with Him as rest, as effort (yoke), as learning (yoke), as easy, and being responsible for a light burden. I have found this to be quite true. That stands in contrast to his description of a "great struggle against sin."

The secret of the Christian life is that one does not focus on sin eradication, but on positive obedience to Christ in the formation of the character, which has the effect of undermining the power and pull of sin in our lives. If we focus on sin instead of obedience to Jesus, we will fail every time in the long term because our character will not be transformed.

A tree is known by its fruit. We must enter into the life of Jesus (positive obedience in discipleship) to make the tree good, instead of focusing on plucking off the bad fruit and being otherwise fruitless.

Even Paul had a thorn in the flesh and had a struggle against sin!

 

[Salty]

Even Paul had a thorn in the flesh and had a struggle against sin!

Pray tell us - what was that sin?

 

[blessedwife318]

Well that's your opinion and you are wrong. His books are used at certain Calvinist seminaries as I have seen folks on FB post pics of his books as their required reading.

You know when you go to school you are required to read more than just the Bible but books that help one understand the Bible better. You do not like this because you want to read and interpret any way you please.

I am going through the Bible on MP3 CD.

So you agree with Paul Washer on marriage and divorce then? That would be a step forward.



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[JonC]

Even Paul had a thorn in the flesh and had a struggle against sin!

I need to point out that Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” is nowhere described as a sin or even as a temptation to sin (it doesn't belong with the second part of your statement). But yes, we all struggle with sin.

The difference is that the Christian is not bound to sin. We are freed from the bonds of sin and are able to make that choice to walk in Christ. When we do sin it is because we made the choice that was in our power (in Christ) to resist. We always have a way out because we can always turn to God.

When we read of the Christian struggle it is not with sin (not with sinful acts) but with our fleshly sinfulness. We are told to struggle with this temptation, to kill sin in our lives. So yes, we struggle, but we do not have to fail. In the end, when we sin it is because we willingly choose sin over God.

 

[JonC]

Its one reason why Washer seeks to preach Biblical doctrine in the weak SBC domination.

Actually, Paul Washer has stated that he is SBC because of it's strength - NOT it's weakness. So I have to ask (like Washer, I am SBC) why do you believe the SBC is so weak?

 

[evangelist6589]

I need to point out that Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” is nowhere described as a sin or even as a temptation to sin (it doesn't belong with the second part of your statement). But yes, we all struggle with sin.

The difference is that the Christian is not bound to sin. We are freed from the bonds of sin and are able to make that choice to walk in Christ. When we do sin it is because we made the choice that was in our power (in Christ) to resist. We always have a way out because we can always turn to God.

When we read of the Christian struggle it is not with sin (not with sinful acts) but with our fleshly sinfulness. We are told to struggle with this temptation, to kill sin in our lives. So yes, we struggle, but we do not have to fail. In the end, when we sin it is because we willingly choose sin over God.

I think you need to read up on the commentaries regarding the thorn in the flesh.