'The Great Commission' Given To Israel

[Iconoclast]

Greektim

Thanks for this link. The thoughts expressed here are some of the core thoughts to uncover the teaching on this issue:thumbsup:

Beforehand, let me say I don't see Israel accomplishing her mission to bless the nations the same way the church is to do so.

I do not see how it could have developed any other way than it did.
Israel in the first Exodus vowed it would be covenant keepers. They failed in several ways. Failing to be law keepers they did not love their neighbors.

That in part is primarily b/c where Israel failed, Jesus as the new Israel, the new Adam was successful.

To find out what went wrong it is helpful to see what the expanded ministry of the Christian Israel is.
In watching as Jesus taught in the NT. we can look back and see with a Divine commentary where OT Israel failed.

And we are united to him thus composing part of that new Israel and new Adam. Therefore, eschatologically relevant commands like "be fruitful and multiply" are fulfilled by the new humanity through evangelism. As we preach the gospel and new people take on the image of Jesus who is the true image of God (new Adam), we are fulfilling the Adamic comission.

:thumbsup: God's purposes in redemption were revealed progressively.

Israel I believe had this mission and yet failed. But the process to success was different. They were to be the new humanity, the new nation, that would bring about the blessing to all other nations. But they rebelled and violated their covenant pact w/ YHWH.

Deut.2:24-25 Gods initial purpose cleansing the land-

24 Rise ye up, take your journey, and pass over the river Arnon: behold, I have given into thine hand Sihon the Amorite, king of Heshbon, and his land: begin to possess it, and contend with him in battle.

25 This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.
the land had been defiled...

24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled

28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.


Deut.4:5-8 God's law as a showcase of God's moral character to the nations;
5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the Lord my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.

6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?


Deut4:9-24 God as a consuming fire;
9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;

10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy God in Horeb, when the Lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.

11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.

12 And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.

13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:

16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,

18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:

19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

20 But the Lord hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

21 Furthermore the Lord was angry with me for your sakes, and sware that I should not go over Jordan, and that I should not go in unto that good land, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance:

22 But I must die in this land, I must not go over Jordan: but ye shall go over, and possess that good land.

23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the Lord thy God hath forbidden thee.

24 For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.


Deut4:25-40 the Divine warning for covenant breaking;
25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the Lord thy God, to provoke him to anger:

26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

27 And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.

28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

31 (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

33 Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?



36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.




40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.

There are a lot of biblical theological motifs at play here. But I think they all intertwine quite beautifully.

I think Exo 19:5-6 is the most informative on Israel's mission. As God's special elect nation (out of all the nations I chose you), you will be my kingdom of priests (this is mission in that the duty of a priest is to represent people to God). That means your job is to bring the nations into my presence which is exclusively with you in the promised land just as it was with Adam and Eve in Eden. The nations will do this, they will come to you (Israel), if you are a holy/distinct/separate nation. Just as the people come to the priests at the temple, the nations will come to you as you bring them into my presence.

This is seen in 1 pet 2...

Here is an illustration of what mission success looks like:
Zec 8:22 Many peoples and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.
Zec 8:23 Thus says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew, saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'"

I will add more later...most move out now.

 

[kyredneck]

Interesting choice of words:

“For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “ ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”” (Acts 13:47, ESV)

Who would be the 'us" in the quote of the OT?

Rob

46 And Paul and Barnabas spake out boldly, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first be spoken to you. Seeing ye thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee for a light of the Gentiles, That thou shouldest be for salvation unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 13

It's obvious that the fulfillment of the OT quote is occurring in this very context of the preaching of Paul and Barnabas and then those later to come.

Man, I totally did not anticipate the confusion that would arise from the convolutions of dispensationalism when I posed the question in the OP.

 

[Iconoclast]

Interesting choice of words:

“For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “ ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”” (Acts 13:47, ESV)

Who would be the 'us" in the quote of the OT?

Rob

The quote is taken in reference to Jesus as The Servant of the Lord.... The true Covenant Son...ex4:22...and us In Him.



isa491-8

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;


Later the mass group of gentiles coming in is spoken of;


54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.


When Y1 offered on isa60:1-3...Kyred correctly said this was prophetic....well...it had to be because Israel was not bringing forth the expected fruit

5 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.

4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.


this leads to mt 21 :43

 

[Iconoclast]

65 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8 Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.


I believe because of national sin and disobedience the prophets of necessity had to look forward to the New Exodus, The Christian Israel.....commanded to Go ...making disciples worldwide and not to emulate OT Israel...which was at ease in Zion, and did not believe Holiness and separation from the profane was mandatory.

So we are commanded as the New Israel of God;14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

[beameup]

Actually, an angel preaches the Gospel during the "Day of the Lord" at the end of this age (second half of Tribulation - 3 1/2 years).
This occurs following the removal of believers saved during the first half of the 7 year Tribulation (also 3 1/2 years).

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour
of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Rev 14:6-7

This is the final fulfillment of the "Great Commission". The Gospel of the (coming) Kingdom will be preached to every human on earth.

 

[Iconoclast]

Actually, an angel preaches the Gospel during the "Day of the Lord" at the end of this age (second half of Tribulation - 3 1/2 years).
This occurs following the removal of believers saved during the first half of the 7 year Tribulation (also 3 1/2 years).



This is the final fulfillment of the "Great Commission". The Gospel of the (coming) Kingdom will be preached to every human on earth.

:laugh::laughf course....the tricky antichrist must break the covenant in the middle of the week,,, how could I forget, he is so sneaky,

 

[beameup]

:laugh::laughf course....the tricky antichrist must break the covenant in the middle of the week,,, how could I forget, he is so sneaky,

Actually, it would be more appropriate to call him the False Christ, as "the man of sin" will have tremendous supernatural powers.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple
of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thes 2:3-4

Of course, those "left behind" (who were never truly born again) will be totally deceived by the False Christ.

 

[Deacon]

Man, I totally did not anticipate the confusion that would arise from the convolutions of dispensationalism when I posed the question in the OP.

Sorry I don't see this as a dispy/covenant issue.
It's not so complicated as it's presented in this thread.
Still Iconoclast rightly stated that it is part of a complex motif.

I see Israel being given a task to be a light to the world.
I see, like others have stated, Israel failed to perform that task.

From the beginning of the bible we see a constantly reoccurring pattern: God's expectation -> man's failure -> God's reaction -> man's repentance (or defiance) -> God's fulfillment

The OP question was: Where exactly was Israel given the command to evangelize the nations?

I believe:

1) God's expectation was that Israel would be a light to the world.
2) The people of Israel failed miserably in that task.
3) God revealed his Son as the light to the people of Israel.
4) They were called to believe and repent.
5) God's light is now offered by believers in his Son to all peoples/nations who will eventually bow down before him.

No, Israel wasn't precisely told to evangelize. That's a NT concept.
But Israel was part of a plan to reveal God to the world.

Rob

 

[Dr. Bob]

corrected spelling on title of thread

when asked to, I looked, scratched my head, and thought someone else must have corrected it.

"commision" looked good enough for me!! :laugh:

 

[kyredneck]

.....Man, I totally did not anticipate the confusion that would arise from the convolutions of dispensationalism when I posed the question in the OP.

Sorry I don't see this as a dispy/covenant issue.

The issue is the complications that arise from a strictly literal interpretation such as is found within Dispensationalism.

It's not so complicated as it's presented in this thread.

Totally agree.

Still Iconoclast rightly stated that it is part of a complex motif.

I believe that was GT:

..There are a lot of biblical theological motifs at play here. But I think they all intertwine quite beautifully….

It’s not complicated, at all. Anywhere in the OT, ESPECIALLY the Prophets, that Israel is the topic, it must be ascertained ‘which Israel’ is in view:

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9

How many ‘Israels’ are there in the Bible? TWO. They’re either children of the flesh or children of the promise; either of the earthly Jerusalem or the heavenly Jerusalem; either circumcised in flesh or circumcised in heart; either of the mount Sinai covenant or the everlasting covenant; and this could be drawn out farther but you all get the point.

Some scriptures tell of Israel becoming utterly corrupt [Dt 31:29] and incurring great wrath and destruction. Other scripture tell of a glorious future for Israel when the Nations would flow into it or their seed would inherit the Nations. Some baptized with the Spirit, others baptized with the fire of His wrath; wheat gathered into the garner, chaff burnt up with unquenchable fire; behold then, the goodness and severity of God.

...Later the mass group of gentiles coming in is spoken of;

54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.....

“The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed”. In Gal 4 Paul reveals the woman here to be the heavenly Zion; her’s are the children of promise, the real Israel.

Duty is calling me to something else; you all carry on, I intend to be back later because I’ve more to touch upon. Thanks to all that have contributed.

 

[kyredneck]

corrected spelling on title of thread

when asked to, I looked, scratched my head, and thought someone else must have corrected it.

"commision" looked good enough for me!! :laugh:

Thank you Dr. Bob!

 

[Yeshua1]

The issue is the complications that arise from a strictly literal interpretation such as is found within Dispensationalism.



Totally agree.



I believe that was GT:



It’s not complicated, at all. Anywhere in the OT, ESPECIALLY the Prophets, that Israel is the topic, it must be ascertained ‘which Israel’ is in view:

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9

How many ‘Israels’ are there in the Bible? TWO. They’re either children of the flesh or children of the promise; either of the earthly Jerusalem or the heavenly Jerusalem; either circumcised in flesh or circumcised in heart; either of the mount Sinai covenant or the everlasting covenant; and this could be drawn out farther but you all get the point.

Some scriptures tell of Israel becoming utterly corrupt [Dt 31:29] and incurring great wrath and destruction. Other scripture tell of a glorious future for Israel when the Nations would flow into it or their seed would inherit the Nations. Some baptized with the Spirit, others baptized with the fire of His wrath; wheat gathered into the garner, chaff burnt up with unquenchable fire; behold then, the goodness and severity of God.



“The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed”. In Gal 4 Paul reveals the woman here to be the heavenly Zion; her’s are the children of promise, the real Israel.

Duty is calling me to something else; you all carry on, I intend to be back later because I’ve more to touch upon. Thanks to all that have contributed.

Your problem in this is that you hav transferred what God said and meant towards Israel to the church, and no wonder confusion arises...

 

[Iconoclast]

Your problem in this is that you hav transferred what God said and meant towards Israel to the church, and no wonder confusion arises...

I do not think KYRED is confused at all. You have not commented on the texts of scripture he offered. If you feel he is mistaken, take what he offered and then you show from those texts how they do not mean what he suggests.:thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

kyredneck

The issue is the complications that arise from a strictly literal interpretation such as is found within Dispensationalism

.

:thumbsup:

Totally agree.

It’s not complicated, at all. Anywhere in the OT, ESPECIALLY the Prophets, that Israel is the topic, it must be ascertained ‘which Israel’ is in view:

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9

How many ‘Israels’ are there in the Bible? TWO. They’re either children of the flesh or children of the promise; either of the earthly Jerusalem or the heavenly Jerusalem; either circumcised in flesh or circumcised in heart; either of the mount Sinai covenant or the everlasting covenant; and this could be drawn out farther but you all get the point.

Some scriptures tell of Israel becoming utterly corrupt [Dt 31:29] and incurring great wrath and destruction. Other scripture tell of a glorious future for Israel when the Nations would flow into it or their seed would inherit the Nations. Some baptized with the Spirit, others baptized with the fire of His wrath; wheat gathered into the garner, chaff burnt up with unquenchable fire; behold then, the goodness and severity of God.



“The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed”. In Gal 4 Paul reveals the woman here to be the heavenly Zion; her’s are the children of promise, the real Israel.

Duty is calling me to something else; you all carry on, I intend to be back later because I’ve more to touch upon. Thanks to all that have contributed.

[/QUOTE]
Kyred....we are mostly on the same page and I enjoy most of the scriptures you are offering. I enjoy working over these sections again to see if I can understand God's purpose for us ,even more as I look at how OT Israel failed for the most part....

I can agree with what you said in the OP....in that OT Israel was never compliant with the original instructions they were given on how to serve.

If we think for a moment...MT 28 could not have fully taken place, because
Gal4:4 had not yet happened.

Yet Israel was viewed as God's covenant son....who was to serve God.


22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

That service was to be as A HOLY Nation, A Kingdom of priests...ministering to others.....it was to draw a clear line between itself and the nations.....and yet God made loving provision for the strangers among them.

12 And now, Israel,
what doth the Lord thy God require of thee,

but to fear the Lord thy God,

to walk in all his ways,

and to love him,

and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

15 Only the Lord had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

20 Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.

and again in lev 19
9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the Lord your God.


Many of these same exact principles or laws age given to the church in the NT.

Now they had a fixed place of worship, with the tabernacle, and then the temple, and at that Time Jerusalem was the Holy City, the Holy Place...{it no longer is} so they were not so much instructed to GO...as we are now...because earthly Zion and Jerusalem was the place of worship....until the cross....


We are sent out from the HEAVENLY ZION AND JERUSALEM...Heb12 22-24, and Isa 2;2-4:wavey:

 

[kyredneck]

I don’t think it’s been shown that Israel was ever given the command to ‘go unto all the nations’, however, they did indeed do just that:

Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven … how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia, in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God. Acts 2:5,8-11

For Moses from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath. Acts 15:21

It was this network of synagogues throughout all the nations that served as the conduit for the gospel to spread with lightning speed and to be ‘preached in all creation under heaven’ before the NT was even completed.

In this regard, Israel was a resounding success.

 

[kyredneck]

Your problem in this is that you hav transferred what God said and meant towards Israel to the church, and no wonder confusion arises...

I do not think KYRED is confused at all. You have not commented on the texts of scripture he offered. If you feel he is mistaken, take what he offered and then you show from those texts how they do not mean what he suggests.:thumbsup:

Yeshua1 (from his moniker I'm guessing he may be Jewish Christian himself) is typical dispy, in that he insists on a distinction of two entities where the scriptures clearly, plainly, repeatedly say there's now only one:

14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction...Acts 11:12

and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; Ro 3:22

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 9:12

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10:12

where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10:16

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

 

[Iconoclast]

kyredneck

I don’t think it’s been shown that Israel was ever given the command to ‘go unto all the nations’, however, they did indeed do just that:

I can agree with this statement....nowhere was anything as explicit as Mt 28, but we can see why...

these verses you offered are very good and on point:thumbs::wavey:

Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven … how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia, in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God. Acts 2:5,8-11

For Moses from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath. Acts 15:21

It was this network of synagogues throughout all the nations that served as the conduit for the gospel to spread with lightning speed and to be ‘preached in all creation under heaven’ before the NT was even completed.

In this regard, Israel was a resounding success.

yes God in His providence set the stage so to speak for the transition from OT/NT worship...

Israel was not a total failure in setting up the structure, but they totally failed by sinful neglect and compromise of scriptural law and ordinances...substituting their own ideas instead of the ones God commanded them to obey. Jesus in the gospels identified flawlessly just how they failed and they wanted to kill Him for it:thumbs:

 

[kyredneck]

....Israel was not a total failure in setting up the structure ….

IMO, in God’s scheme of redemption/revelation Israel fulfilled their purpose of being to the fullest; remember, His ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts.

….. but they totally failed by sinful neglect and compromise of scriptural law and ordinances...substituting their own ideas instead of the ones God commanded them to obey. Jesus in the gospels identified flawlessly just how they failed and they wanted to kill Him for it:thumbs:

“Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who knew not Joseph.” Ex 1:8

Remember that ‘that generation’ was ‘an evil and adulterous generation’ of which Moses clearly prophesied were not God’s children [DT 32:5]. John the Baptist and Christ made no bones about referring to them as offspring of serpents, children of the devil, brood of vipers, etc. ‘That generation’ was the very fulfillment of the serpent in Gen 3:15, and did exactly as their father would have them do [Jn 8:44], so again, in God’s scheme of redemption/revelation, even ‘that wicked generation’ in Israel fulfilled their purpose of being to the fullest.

 

[Iconoclast]

IMO, in God’s scheme of redemption/revelation Israel fulfilled their purpose of being to the fullest; remember, His ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts.



“Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who knew not Joseph.” Ex 1:8

Remember that ‘that generation’ was ‘an evil and adulterous generation’ of which Moses clearly prophesied were not God’s children [DT 32:5]. John the Baptist and Christ made no bones about referring to them as offspring of serpents, children of the devil, brood of vipers, etc. ‘That generation’ was the very fulfillment of the serpent in Gen 3:15, and did exactly as their father would have them do [Jn 8:44], so again, in God’s scheme of redemption/revelation, even ‘that wicked generation’ in Israel fulfilled their purpose of being to the fullest.

I like your train of thought here Kyred:thumbsup: we are solving all manner of theology:love2: I agree that the curses of deut 28-33 are fulfilled in Mt 20-25 and what Jesus said would come upon them.

 

[HankD]

Yeshua, Israel under the law of Moses had no "good news" to preach.

They did have a covenant with God that required circumcision whether natural born Israeli citizen or proselyte, 613 rules to be kept and a curse if one didn't keep everyone of them.

A really hard sell.

HankD