The Great Flood

[TCassidy]

Well that's the difficulty, then. If the firmament is the division between the waters above and the waters below, and the sun, moon and stars are in the firmament, then your vapor canopy is somewhere beyond the stars.

Anticipating your response, I will say simply that one has to come to the text with a presupposition to assume the firmament of vs 6 is not the one of vs 14.

I still fail to see your problem. There are waters below the expanse of sky, and waters above the expanse of sky. Because the sun, moon, and stars can be seen in the expanse of sky does not mean the canopy has to be beyond the stars. It is under the stars, just as the bible says "waters below."

 

[Alcott]

The fact that we still have them should answer your question.

No, it doesn't answer the question of whether there were only 2 of them spared via the ark. Evidently you 'exempt' microbes, though scripture does not tell us that, and it is an apparent conclusion that undersea creatures were exempt. But the real heart of the matter is that the worldwide flood did not happen logically; such as, is there enough water on earth to cover Mt. Everest. I don't have time to do the calculations right now, but that volume would be a mighty big barrel's worth. So if it happened, it happened miraculously, so cannot be proved or disproved logically.

 

[TCassidy]

No, it doesn't answer the question of whether there were only 2 of them spared via the ark.

Yes, it does. Those which could not survive the flood and associated turmoil were in the ark.

Evidently you 'exempt' microbes, though scripture does not tell us that, and it is an apparent conclusion that undersea creatures were exempt.

I wasn't there. Those which survived were exempted by God, not by me.

But the real heart of the matter is that the worldwide flood did not happen logically; such as, is there enough water on earth to cover Mt. Everest.

Well, Mt. Everest is the result of the breaking up of the planet's crust so it did not exist until after the flood. If the earth were a fairly smooth surface the existing oceans would cover the earth to around 1.5 miles deep. If no major mountains existed (which resulted from the breaking up of the crust) but only fairly mild hills and valleys then the highest hills being covered to a depth of 45 feet is not a stretch.

 

[agedman]

I thought this interesting.

It gives some credible information

Bible Encyclopedia: Deluge

 

[HankD]

No, it doesn't answer the question of whether there were only 2 of them spared via the ark. Evidently you 'exempt' microbes, though scripture does not tell us that, and it is an apparent conclusion that undersea creatures were exempt. But the real heart of the matter is that the worldwide flood did not happen logically; such as, is there enough water on earth to cover Mt. Everest. I don't have time to do the calculations right now, but that volume would be a mighty big barrel's worth. So if it happened, it happened miraculously, so cannot be proved or disproved logically.

Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Gilled fish and microbes are not air breathers.

If there was indeed an ice canopy enveloping the earth and/or water coming up from the depths of the earth then there could have been sufficient water without supernatural intervention on God's part to cover the mountains.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

HankD

 

[Alcott]

I wasn't there. Those which survived were exempted by God, not by me.

You said, regarding fish, " Probably most but not all." And you said no to paramecia, and "I wish" to amoebae. So don't say you're not putting your own ideas into this where scripture does not tell us.

Well, Mt. Everest is the result of the breaking up of the planet's crust so it did not exist until after the flood. If the earth were a fairly smooth surface the existing oceans would cover the earth to around 1.5 miles deep. If no major mountains existed (which resulted from the breaking up of the crust) but only fairly mild hills and valleys then the highest hills being covered to a depth of 45 feet is not a stretch.

The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered [Genesis 7:19].

How high were the Bible's "high mountains?" Using data from How Big Is Earth?, the volume of the earth is 782,137,477,983 cubic miles. If the waters added 1.5 miles to the radius, that would mean 888,455,878 additional cubic miles of water. According to How Much Water Is in the Atmosphere? the amount of water in the atmosphere is about 3100 cubic miles. How are all those millions of cubic miles of water accounted for?

As for your contention that high mountains did not exist before the flood, the highest peak of Mt. Ararat is given as 16,854 feet [How High is Mount Ararat? | Dimensions Info]. Was Ararat just a little hill before the waters receded? And where did they recede to?

 

[TCassidy]

How are all those millions of cubic miles of water accounted for?

The vapor canopy and the fountains of the great deep.

And where did they recede to?

To the deep basins made when the crust fractured.

 

[Bro. James]

Seems academic: high mountains, low mountains, earth quakes, tidal waves, galactic ice, plate tectonics. The earth was turned inside out and upside down. All the homo sapiens perished except for eight who found grace. The details to six decimal places is not necessary. The eight are now over seven billion in spite of planned parenthood and other Molech worship.

Some highly educated folk are still trying to figure out if the first man Adam had a navel.

The Great Flood of Noah is a glaring reminder that God has a penalty for sin.

Time to repent, redemption draws nearer.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[HankD]

Was Ararat just a little hill before the waters receded? And where did they recede to?

The continents that are now in existence were the pre-flood "high mountains".

Water receded into the chasms left by the breaking up of the fountains of the deep and the result is the oceans of the earth whose surface is covered with 70% water.

HankD

 

[agedman]

Why do not some take the Scriptures as written?

If they bring doubt to one passage, what is to prevent doubt of all?

Do any have the same level of thinking and understanding as God?


When it is said, “Fred died in the fire,” it may not be that the fire killed him. The smoke, the building collapse, the lack of breathable air, ... any number of things could have caused Fred to die in the fire.

Same with the Genesis flood.

Quit asking the what about that which humankind would contrive as doubt, and be thankful God gives the rainbow.

 

[Alcott]

The vapor canopy and the fountains of the great deep.

This 'vapor canopy' held 286,599 times as much water as the atmosphere now holds?

To the deep basins made when the crust fractured.

You have not shown scripturally any verification of this fracturing. Even if so, is there close to a billion cubic miles of water 'down there' superheated in the mantle or core?

 

[Alcott]

The continents that are now in existence were the pre-flood "high mountains".
Water receded into the chasms left by the breaking up of the fountains of the deep and the result is the oceans of the earth whose surface is covered with 70% water.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth” [Genesis 1:26].

The sea was already in existence. And unless there was another creation of animals, the biggest fish and whales lived there.

 

[HankD]

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth” [Genesis 1:26].

The sea was already in existence. And unless there was another creation of animals, the biggest fish and whales lived there.

So what?

HankD

 

[Alcott]

So what?

So the flood did not create the oceans. That's what.

 

[percho]

I love this verse.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.John 16:13

However that verse also causes me worry and concern.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

[TCassidy]

This 'vapor canopy' held 286,599 times as much water as the atmosphere now holds?

That plus the "great deep."

You have not shown scripturally any verification of this fracturing.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

 

[HankD]

So the flood did not create the oceans. That's what.

OK that's your opinion.

Personally I wouldn't use the word "create" but that the flood greatly "expanded" the seas.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

You are aware of the difference between an ocean and a sea, are you not?

 

[HankD]

You are aware of the difference between an ocean and a sea, are you not?

Right. For my answer to Alcott, I should have said that the flood expanded the seas into the oceans.

Understandably there is an issue here but I'll not mention it if you don't know what it is Alcott.



HankD

 

[TCassidy]

Right. For my answer to Alcott, I should have said that the flood expanded the seas into the oceans.

Yep. Here is the simplest definition of the difference.

What's the difference between an ocean and a sea?