The greatest gift given to humanity

[Iconoclast]

Then why did you imply that the op was only a question rather than a declaration?




Which has nothing to do with which is superior. Christ and His salvation is superior. There is no room for question on this.

The testimony (scripture) cannot be greater than that of which it testifies about.

Scripture is Gods own testimony of who He is. It cannot be greater than Him and that is what you are suggesting here.

It is not a question of who is superior.
It is what is the greatest gift given by God to mankind?
Without scripture you do not know of the trinity, the fall,sin and death, the law and gospel,regeneration,justification, new birth,election, predestination, the
Covenants of promise...you know nothing with Divine authority

 

[JonC]

It looks like you're asking is that something greater than God himself that's not the issue the issue is what was the greatest gift. We can know about God we can know about what Jesus has done in the Incarnation only through the scripture. Now you are right to ask for some scriptural support always so being it is the greatest gift because it reveals our God I think that is fitting that there should be more scriptural support offered.
I should be able to make more of a scriptural case this afternoon

I have a little bit of time before a meeting (stuck working at home). Here are a few passages that come to mind that demonstrate we can in fact know about God apart from Scripture (sometimes it seems we get stuck in the Enlightenment). But I would agree Scripture is the greater revelation, and Christ the greatest Revelation, of God to man. Scripture is also our standard for evaluating doctrine. While I am not belittling Scripture, it is certainly not the greatest gift God has gifted mankind.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Psalm 19:1-4 The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun,

Job 12:7-10 But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind?

 

[JonC]

Mankind only has true and accurate knowledge of God and His truth, as the Spirit quickened it at regeneration.

This is not quite accurate. Paul presents Creation as accurately testifying to God and His Truth.

Romans 1:20-21 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[Revmitchell]

It is not a question of who is superior.
It is what is the greatest gift given by God to mankind?
Without scripture you do not know of the trinity, the fall,sin and death, the law and gospel,regeneration,justification, new birth,election, predestination, the
Covenants of promise...you know nothing with Divine authority

God gave Himself to mankind. It is a question of which is superior. God or scripture. Christ and His salvation or scripture.

You are making a claim not supported by scripture. In fact it isnt even necessary

 

[Reynolds]

Wouldn't that be a grave sin to elevate anything above the Trinity Themselves?

Just off the top of my grad, I would say its its idolatry.

 

[JonC]

Just off the top of my grad, I would say its its idolatry.

My concern is that the view of Scripture could lead some to relying on human knowledge (under the misunderstanding that spiritual knowledge is the acceptance of this data as being true) rather than God and missing the true gospel of Christ. It is eerily similar to the approach of the pharisees who worshiped the letter of the Law without approaching a spiritual understanding.

(Not accusing anyone of that error, but that is one reason I am concerned about some of the claims here).

 

[Iconoclast]

God gave Himself to mankind. It is a question of which is superior. God or scripture. Christ and His salvation or scripture.

You are making a claim not supported by scripture. In fact it isnt even necessary

rm.
.
how do you know God gave himself to mankind?
why did He need to.do so?
how do you know there was a problem?

 

[Revmitchell]

rm.
.
how do you know God gave himself to mankind?
why did He need to.do so?
how do you know there was a problem?

That doesn't make it superior to Christ and His salvation. The testimony cannot be greater than that which it testifies of. Its not even necessary to think so.

 

[Iconoclast]

I do not have much to say, but i will say this...

The Pharisees had the written word, and treasured it, and then nailed the Son of God to a cross. @Iconoclast, you are repeating the same mistake as the Pharisees.

And, can i just be honest here? This thread is dumb.

that is different in that they had it but without the Spirit never welcomed it.

what I think is dumb is only two people seem to understand the OP.,now that's dumb

 

[Iconoclast]

That doesn't make it superior to Christ and His salvation. The testimony cannot be greater than that which it testifies of. Its not even necessary to think so.

the op is not speaking of superior...We all know because of scripture God is superior .
the op stands in that without it we do not know a these truths about God.
a poster spoke of the light of creation, the light of conscience .
The rest of romans described how men pervert true knowledge.
I think you said you went to India a few years ago.
Did natural revelation show anyone Jesus or the cross?

 

[JonC]

We know of several things that God has gifted humanity.

In John 3 we learn that God gifted humanity His own Son as an act of His love.

In Psalm 119 we know that God gifts his “lovingkindness” and “salvation”.

The OP does seem to say that Scripture is God’s greatest gift to humanity.

As there are other gifts in Scripture from God, and Christ is one of these, it does appear that the OP is claiming Scripture a greater gift than the gift of the Son and the gift of Salvation.

We cannot ignore the fact that people have been saved apart form Scripture (in the NT). Even if no one else was saved that would make God giving of Himself to save those people the greatest gift (even if we were doomed).

One strange thing is the OP offers as evidence a quote speaking of the Law at a time when Scripture was not completed.

Another issue is the OP seems to be in opposition to other passages which speaks of Christ Himself being foremost in everything.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

that is different in that they had it but without the Spirit never welcomed it.

what I think is dumb is only two people seem to understand the OP.,now that's dumb

Just about everyone posting seems to well understand the assertion made in the OP, and further that that assertion is unbiblical, patently false.

The problem is that because Scripture is uniquely important for its testimony, its inspiration, its usefulness for Christians, its value is inestimable.

But it makes no spiritual sense to say it is a greater gift from God than God’s own Son, and the Bible never says such a thing or even hints at such a thing.

 

[Revmitchell]

the op is not speaking of superior...We all know because of scripture God is superior .
the op stands in that without it we do not know a these truths about God.
a poster spoke of the light of creation, the light of conscience .
The rest of romans described how men pervert true knowledge.
I think you said you went to India a few years ago.
Did natural revelation show anyone Jesus or the cross?

Im gonna give you the last word on this. Ive said all I have to say. Thank you for the great decorum in this conversation.

 

[JonC]

On a similar topic (one that also fits here):

What is more important, Scripture as a whole (Genesis to Revelation) or the gospel message (the message, for example, that Paul would have preached at the Acropolis?

I do not mean to devalue Scripture in any way, but what is more important - the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation or Scripture as a whole which explains so much about God to those who are already saved?

 

[Iconoclast]

Just about everyone posting seems to well understand the assertion made in the OP, and further that that assertion is unbiblical, patently false.

The problem is that because Scripture is uniquely important for its testimony, its inspiration, its usefulness for Christians, its value is inestimable.

But it makes no spiritual sense to say it is a greater gift from God than God’s own Son, and the Bible never says such a thing or even hints at such a thing.

Let me simplify it for you and some of the others once again. Right now in the middle of the rainforest those people have no idea that Jesus has come accomplished Redemption and went back to heaven and is coming again. No amount of natural revelation of the sun moon and stars or a conscience is going to give them that information so if a missionary goes and is able to bring scripture the teaching of scripture to those people then the spirit can use it to save them. By them self if no missionaries go they're going to die in their sins and the fact that Jesus has come to Earth and did all the great things he did in as great as he is they will only know him as judge they don't have a gift of Jesus if we don't have the scripture explaining why Jesus is the gift and why it's necessary I find it very sad that so many people cannot understand that God has designed the scripture to be the very Authority and the Very word of God in scripture rated to turn from that is beyond belief to me.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

On a similar topic (one that also fits here):

What is more important, Scripture as a whole (Genesis to Revelation) or the gospel message (the message, for example, that Paul would have preached at the Acropolis?

I do not mean to devalue Scripture in any way, but what is more important - the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation or Scripture as a whole which explains so much about God to those who are already saved?

I’m going to give an answer to that because of its relevance here. The Gospel--1 Cor 15:3:

Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.​

 

[InTheLight]

what I think is dumb is only two people seem to understand the OP.,now that's dumb

And there it is...

#4. You are not smart enough to understand the doctrines of grace.

I was waiting and waiting for this. I was going to make a prediction upstream but that would have tainted the process. And yes, I realize the topic isn't the doctrines of grace, but still, the excuse that "you don't understand" was used.

So predictable.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Let me simplify it for you and some of the others once again. Right now in the middle of the rainforest those people have no idea that Jesus has come accomplished Redemption and went back to heaven and is coming again. No amount of natural revelation of the sun moon and stars or a conscience is going to give them that information so if a missionary goes and is able to bring scripture the teaching of scripture to those people then the spirit can use it to save them. By them self if no missionaries go they're going to die in their sins and the fact that Jesus has come to Earth and did all the great things he did in as great as he is they will only know him as judge they don't have a gift of Jesus if we don't have the scripture explaining why Jesus is the gift and why it's necessary I find it very sad that so many people cannot understand that God has designed the scripture to be the very Authority and the Very word of God in scripture rated to turn from that is beyond belief to me.

Brother, it’s much simpler than that—the witness must first be true. Without God’s giving His own Son, there is no Gospel. Again, you are relying on someone’s philosophical musings to try to make a case that isn’t found in Scripture, nor supported by it. The subject is greater than the text, and as RM said, the effort is totally unnecessary.

Your concerns regarding cults are irrelevant as they will twist Scripture itself, add their own revelation, etc., and people will be deceived. Your concerns regarding the RCC are similarly irrelevant, as early church history involves reliance on the canon. I do not make the case that we should not use the Bible, or do not need it. But there is no use in trying to elevate it above God’s giving His own Son, and it is unbiblical to do so.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

...I find it very sad that so many people cannot understand that God has designed the scripture to be the very Authority and the Very word of God in scripture rated to turn from that is beyond belief to me.

This sounds like a strawman or an accusation. No one has suggested anything contrary to that here. Perhaps you are lamenting cults, etc.?

 

[JonC]

I’m going to give an answer to that because of its relevance here. The Gospel--1 Cor 15:3:

Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.​

Absolutely!!! So often I think that people get caught up in theologies and ultimately miss the gospel itself. In a way, I understand. There is an appeal to gain knowledge. We want to be "like God".

But I have met people who are so much spiritually mature than I yet have a deficit in theological (and even biblical) knowledge. This is not advocating dismissing Scripture. Those people could benefit from studying God's Word. But this is not a spiritual issue. We know more about God by studying His Word. But we are not drawn into a deeper relationship with God through knowledge of His Word. We are drawn into a deeper relationship with God spiritually, by having the "mind of Christ' and practicing those things that are godly and good.