The Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem. .....the Church

[DHK]

Because you have lied about me. You stated I denied sola fide TWICE, and I even told Bro. Sean(whe he owned this site) about it. The mods and admins will not touch you. You're Teflon and nothing sticks to you.

That is a total non sequitor.
Do you hold grudges forever? Never let go of things? Don't know the meaning of forgiveness?
Did you ask for clarification on the matter? I don't even know what you are referring to, but you are certainly not referring to anything I posted, are you?

 

[DHK]

Again, you missed the context of those passages.

Are Christians under control of Satan?
Are Christians the children of disobedience in the context of Ephesians 2:2?
Has Satan blinded the minds(and eyes) of believers so that they can not see the Light of the gospel?
Are Christians walking in Light or darkness?

I have already answered those questions many times.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I have forgiven you many times, Brother DHK. But Rippon, Iconoclast, BlessedWife318, Internet Theologian, myself, and others have seen the way you handle us. We say one thing, and you twist it to make it appear we said something entirely different. We know your tactics.

And yes, I am willing to moving onward. But your tactics better change, too.

 

[Internet Theologian]

When I click on the reference I get this:


Colossians 1:13
American Standard Version

Verse 13 of 29
< Prev1←1112131415→29Next >View in Context

13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love;

Chapter 1 of 4

His clicking a response of mine does not populate it with a verse that's a blatant fabrication. IOW That's another lie. He physically typed it in.

And yes, I get the ASV as well.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Because you have lied about me. You stated I denied sola fide TWICE, and I even told Bro. Sean(whe he owned this site) about it. The mods and admins will not touch you. You're Teflon and nothing sticks to you.

Yep he does this to you as well. The lies must just automatically populate as he is typing kind of like what happened when he typed into my quotation, physically, something I never stated, then comes back to say that this is what happened. It's a lie to cover a lie. It's sad to behold that he is allowed free reign to do this. Then the defending of it.

 

[Internet Theologian]

...then there is the tirade he went on about how I used the word translated. LET'S NOT FORGET HE ALSO SAID 'HERE IT IS: (THEN HE TYPED IN WHAT I DIDN'T SAY) AND ENDED IT WITH 'YOU SAID IT'.

Yes, physically typed it in.

I didn't, but this is the type of stunts he pulls. From where I come from, old school ways, that's called lying.

...but back to his tirade, He went on about how I was saying that I was translated like Enoch, or was assuming this, something to that respect, and went on into absurdity and a straw man beating.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I have forgiven you many times, Brother DHK. But Rippon, Iconoclast, BlessedWife318, Internet Theologian, myself, and others have seen the way you handle us. We say one thing, and you twist it to make it appear we said something entirely different. We know your tactics.

And yes, I am willing to moving onward. But your tactics better change, too.

Jeremiah 13:23

 

[Internet Theologian]

Jeremiah 13:23

Looky here, I quoted a verse reference and it didn't automatically populate the verse. Hmmmm.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Jeremiah 13:23

Oooof!!!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Looky here, I quoted a verse reference and it didn't automatically populate the verse. Hmmmm.

Oooof!!

 

[TCassidy]

The mods and admins will not touch you.

That is not entirely accurate. You have no idea what has transpired in Private Message and in the Moderators Only forum.

 

[TCassidy]

Looky here, I quoted a verse reference and it didn't automatically populate the verse.

That's odd. It does for me. Any time I place the cursor over the reference the verse pops up on my screen. Doesn't it do that for you?

Hmmmm.

Yes, "hmmmmm" indeed.

 

[Darrell C]

'The king is not here; he is absent' - DHK concerning Christ.

A denial of Omnipresence.

This is not a denial of Omnipresence. It is just a fact. Scripture prophecies a literal, physical Return, and that has not happened yet.

That is not an issue of Omnipresence.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

If a king travels away from the realm of where he is king does he stop being a king of that realm.
Does the distance that he travels determine whether or not He is King?
If the king is not physically present in the same room you are does that mean he's not the king?

There is no denial that Christ is King, but, just as you state in your post...He has traveled away.

And we await His Return.

And this is the point of several Parables, to describe conditions during that time and what takes place.

We are given a context of Israel:


Matthew 21

King James Version (KJV)

33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


We see it in a context of the Church Age:


Matthew 25:13-14

King James Version (KJV)

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.


Both depict the King (or the man, in the second account, Who is the Master) not being present and then coming.

He still remains King/Master, but that doesn't mean we can overlook the fact that He is said to have traveled away.


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

Darrell C
Hello DC

There is no denial that Christ is King, but, just as you state in your post...He has traveled away.

I agree....but DHK denies Jesus is King.....he believes satan rules instead

And we await His Return.

Yes...The blessed Hope.....we occupy until He comes

And this is the point of several Parables, to describe conditions during that time and what takes place.

Agreed DC....

We are given a context of Israel:


Matthew 21

King James Version (KJV)

33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


We see it in a context of the Church Age:


Matthew 25:13-14

King James Version (KJV)

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.


Both depict the King (or the man, in the second account, Who is the Master) not being present and then coming.

He still remains King/Master, but that doesn't mean we can overlook the fact that He is said to have traveled away.


God bless.[/QUOTE]

 

[Internet Theologian]

This is not a denial of Omnipresence. It is just a fact. Scripture prophecies a literal, physical Return, and that has not happened yet.

That is not an issue of Omnipresence.


God bless.

That doesn't make God absent in any sense. Perhaps you're a deist and didn't know it?

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Let's examine this position.
Was Christ ever king while on earth, and was the earth ever made his earthly realm? If so, when? Where does the Bible give such information?

Right here;
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

He never came as a King

.
4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

The Jews could not accept Him as King. The could not accept a Messiah who came to them as a suffering servant.

Too bad for them...they are in hell now. I do not care what they thought...they were wrong, like you.

. He did not come as King but as a servant.

He came as both ...that is a fact.

The only crown Christ wore was a crown of thorns.
--He was arrayed as a criminal, not a king.

Yes...and Pilate said the truth....
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

How come you cannot hear this DHK?
19 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.

2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

 

[Internet Theologian]

DHK



Right here;
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.


Apart from a few Christophanies, He came as a babe born in a manger, and an idol of Him can be found in most Catholic churches. That is the way much of the world remembers his in the winter--the baby Jesus. He, to them, is not the King, but an infant.
He never came as a King. To some he was known as a carpenter, Joseph's son.
To others he was known as a Rabbi, for no one taught as He did.
He would have given the kingdom Israel, but they rejected both Him and the Kingdom.
But He knew they would. It was prophesied. The Jews could not accept Him as King. The could not accept a Messiah who came to them as a suffering servant.
Jesus came to die. He suffered and died to atone for our sins. He did not come as King but as a servant.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
--He came as a servant, to serve, to give his life as a ransom.

The only crown Christ wore was a crown of thorns.
--He was arrayed as a criminal, not a king.

It is so plain to see, it is right there.

 

[Darrell C]

I agree....but DHK denies Jesus is King.....he believes satan rules instead

I don't think that is a reasonable conclusion, and think it's just a matter that he takes the same view I do, which is that while we, you, I, and DHK, understand that Christ is King of Kings, you, I, and DHK may not equate that in the same way in regards to our current circumstances.

Right now, we don't have to look far to see that Satan's influence in this world is dominant. An example would be, "Do we see Christ as King of the Muslim world?"

The answer would be no, because they reject the Biblical Christ.

But for those of us who are looking for that moment in time when Christ Returns and assumes complete control over the world, we see that in that time will be the exercise of Divine Authority over the entire earth, and this in a literal sense.

Consider when Satan tempted Christ, he offered up the kingdoms of this world. Doesn't mean, even then, that God's Sovereignty wasn't the ultimate power. But, that authority will (and keep in mind this is from a premillennial perspective) be put down when the literal Return we look for takes place.

I actually view that authority to be imposed even just before Christ Returns:

Revelation 11:15

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

(ignore emphasis, a result of my search (easy way to pull up the verse))

I see this as roughly mid-point of the Tribulation, and this is where the freedom Satan has had basically ends. At this point, Satan is the "god of this world" in the sense of the power allowed him, and we can see his influence in the governments of the world today.

What we contrast this current state of conditions with is the Theocracy that we see coming, where even false prophets will seek to disguise their beliefs and doctrine, quite unlike our current conditions, where not only are false teachers rampant, but they are very prosperous and thriving.

Just as in the Parables given, the King is still the King, the Master still the Master, but, the King Himself gave us teaching to illustrate the conditions when He was not directly with the servants.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

That doesn't make God absent in any sense. Perhaps you're a deist and didn't know it?

But we are talking about two different things, IT, Christ's rule in His Kingdom still currently alive, and Christ's rule directly in the affairs of men.

We don't equate Christ while performing His Earthly Ministry with the Ministry of today, do we?

It's mostly an issue of perspective between two different eschatologies. I understand my A-mil brethrens' view, and I don't have a problem with it, as I can understand why they take that view. Those of us looking for a literal Return and then the Millennial Kingdom do not view these current conditions as that which will be present then.

My guess is that you know our view as well, so why let this be an issue for contention. If it is going to be debated, great, but keep it doctrinal. No need to imply one has Satan for a King because one believes that Satan is the god of this world.

Here is an example of the weakness of that argument: when Rome ruled over Israel, was Caesar...

A. Christ's King;

B. The King of the Jews;

C. The King of those who recognized his authority;

D. A salad.


Caesar was a king, but only to those who recognized his authority. So too, with Satan, he is a god to those who recognize his authority (which can be accomplished simply by rejecting the authority of our King, Jesus Christ). If Christ is not our King, Satan is the default dictator. He is a usurper of authority, and like Rome, he is occupying this world and holds the world in captivity.

That will end, as I said I believe, during the Tribulation. And when Christ Returns, we will see a Theocracy of the trues sense, which will apply not just in spiritual terms (the ule and reign of God in our hearts), but in physical terms as well.


God bless.