The Heresy of Ideological Religion

[Calminian]

I am certainly concerned about my sins and understand the need to continually repent and turn away from them. God will ultimately be the judge of Trump not me. I'm talking about Trump's behavior as an American and President. I find it to be unacceptable. I believe we should demand from our leaders a basic level of morality and truthfulness which I don't find in Trump..

Our Church leaders have a certain standard to uphold. We look to Titus and Timothy for them. It's very different from the standard of Government Authorities, which are not always Christians and not required to be Christians. For them, Romans 13 is the standard, and Trump does very will in this area. The standard for governing officials is very simple. Protect the innocent and punish the guilty.

The most basic qualification for a government authority is his stand on life. Does he believe in protecting all human life, or just some lives? Trump is the most pro-life president we've had in recent years. Obama, OTOH, was pro-murder and failed the Romans 13 test.

Trump has also shown a willingness to punish the guilty. He is pro-death penalty, and willing to kill foreign enemies and protect our nation.

That is the standard. Simple! Not easy, but simple.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Our Church leaders have a certain standard to uphold. We look to Titus and Timothy for them. It's very different from the standard of Government Authorities, which are not always Christians and not required to be Christians. For them, Romans 13 is the standard, and Trump does very will in this area. The standard for governing officials is very simple. Protect the innocent and punish the guilty.

The most basic qualification for a government authority is his stand on life. Does he believe in protecting all human life, or just some lives? Trump is the most pro-life president we've had in recent years. Obama, OTOH, was pro-murder and failed the Romans 13 test.

Trump has also shown a willingness to punish the guilty. He is pro-death penalty, and willing to kill foreign enemies and protect our nation.

That is the standard. Simple! Not easy, but simple.

Did you treat president Obama and President Clinton with respect? The sanctity of life includes much more than abortion and actually Trump's real stand on abortion is questionable. Killing people by taking away necessary food, housing and medical care is just as unacceptable as aborting unborn babies. So is cutting medicaid and therefore kicking seniors out of retirement homes. The GOP has supported these acts against the born ever since Reagan. They've had 45 years to reverse the Roe vs. Wade decision enacted by a majority REPUBLICAN Supreme Court. How long is long enough to wait for real change? 100 years?

In addition the useless wars started by GW Bush in Afghanistan and Iraq murdered hundreds of thousands of people both combatants and civilians. That's also anti-life obviously.

 

[Calminian]

Did you treat president Obama and President Clinton with respect? The sanctity of life includes much more than abortion and actually Trump's real stand on abortion is questionable.

His stand on abortion is not questionable in the least. He's been recognized as the most pro-life president in history. He's wreaking havoc on the abortion movement, and abortionists know it.

Your stand on abortion is highly questionable.

Killing people by taking away necessary food, housing and medical care is just as unacceptable as aborting unborn babies. So is cutting medicaid and therefore kicking seniors out of retirement homes. The GOP has supported these acts against the born ever since Reagan. They've had 45 years to reverse the Roe vs. Wade decision enacted by a majority REPUBLICAN Supreme Court. How long is long enough to wait for real change? 100 years?

You shall not bear false witness. Also the sin of slander. You keep making up these lies and offer nothing to back them up.

Meanwhile, more than 100 babies murdered per hour, and you were fine with Obama. Look deep within, FTW. Who do you think is grieving God more?

In addition the useless wars started by GW Bush in Afghanistan and Iraq murdered hundreds of thousands of people both combatants and civilians. That's also anti-life obviously.

You can argue that some wars are unjust. Trump argued the Iraq was was a terrible move. I tend to agree. GW Bush was kind of an idiot. But all democrats at the time agreed Iraq was holding weapons of mass destruction. Even Bill Clinton confirmed, so I can understand why all the democrats at the time authorized war.

But comparing that to 60 million babies murdered? Think about that. Think about what side you've found yourself on.

 

[Yeshua1]

What Christians has Trump appointed? Maybe the question should be: How do you define a Christian. Is it simply someone who mouths the right words but lives like the devil?

No, someone who has Jesus as their Lord, but still can sin at times, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Trump had an illegitimate child by his second wife-to-be while still married to his first wife. Does that concern you?

David committed adultery and murder, but was still a man after Gods own heart, correct?
I look at what he is saying and doing right now, do you?

 

[Calminian]

David committed adultery and murder, but was still a man after Gods own heart, correct?
I look at what he is saying and doing right now, do you?

This is just a thought, maybe a carnal one, but can you imagine the look on many saints faces when they die if they see Trump up there with them? Am I'm being wicked if I'd really like to be in that particular heavenly room?

I'm saying this tongue and cheek obviously, no deep theology intended, but you can't help but wonder.

BTW, I'm agnostic on Trump's spiritual condition. He's no worse than any man on a human scale, but I haven't seen any good theological statements from him that would inform me about his spiritual status. But I do like the changes he's made in recent years, and it does give me hope God is bringing him to salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is just a thought, maybe a carnal one, but can you imagine the look on many saints faces when they die if they see Trump up there with them? Am I'm being wicked if I'd really like to be in that particular heavenly room?

I'm saying this tongue and cheek obviously, no deep theology intended, but you can't help but wonder.

BTW, I'm agnostic on Trump's spiritual condition. He's no worse than any man on a human scale, but I haven't seen any good theological statements from him that would inform me about his spiritual status. But I do like the changes he's made in recent years, and it does give me hope God is bringing him to salvation.

He could be a baby saint, or could be one God raised up to use just for a time like this, as God can used the unsaved to get His agenda done at times!

 

[FollowTheWay]

His stand on abortion is not questionable in the least. He's been recognized as the most pro-life president in history. He's wreaking havoc on the abortion movement, and abortionists know it.

Your stand on abortion is highly questionable.



You shall not bear false witness. Also the sin of slander. You keep making up these lies and offer nothing to back them up.

Meanwhile, more than 100 babies murdered per hour, and you were fine with Obama. Look deep within, FTW. Who do you think is grieving God more?



You can argue that some wars are unjust. Trump argued the Iraq was was a terrible move. I tend to agree. GW Bush was kind of an idiot. But all democrats at the time agreed Iraq was holding weapons of mass destruction. Even Bill Clinton confirmed, so I can understand why all the democrats at the time authorized war.

But comparing that to 60 million babies murdered? Think about that. Think about what side you've found yourself on.

You misrepresent my position. Try answering questions in a more Christian way. As the Bible say: By their fruits you shall know them.

 

[FollowTheWay]

This is just a thought, maybe a carnal one, but can you imagine the look on many saints faces when they die if they see Trump up there with them? Am I'm being wicked if I'd really like to be in that particular heavenly room?

I'm saying this tongue and cheek obviously, no deep theology intended, but you can't help but wonder.

BTW, I'm agnostic on Trump's spiritual condition. He's no worse than any man on a human scale, but I haven't seen any good theological statements from him that would inform me about his spiritual status. But I do like the changes he's made in recent years, and it does give me hope God is bringing him to salvation.

You can stand with Trump at the Judgement. I'll take my stand with a real Christian president, Jimmy Carter. OK?

 

[FollowTheWay]

Our Church leaders have a certain standard to uphold. We look to Titus and Timothy for them. It's very different from the standard of Government Authorities, which are not always Christians and not required to be Christians. For them, Romans 13 is the standard, and Trump does very will in this area. The standard for governing officials is very simple. Protect the innocent and punish the guilty.

The most basic qualification for a government authority is his stand on life. Does he believe in protecting all human life, or just some lives? Trump is the most pro-life president we've had in recent years. Obama, OTOH, was pro-murder and failed the Romans 13 test.

Trump has also shown a willingness to punish the guilty. He is pro-death penalty, and willing to kill foreign enemies and protect our nation.

That is the standard. Simple! Not easy, but simple.

I follow Jesus not "church leaders." We should love our enemies not murder them.

 

[JonC]

You can stand with Trump at the Judgement. I'll take my stand with a real Christian president, Jimmy Carter. OK?

Might I suggest taking your stand with Christ instead?

The problem I see with politics is that people are starting to see the GOP or the DNC as somehow an extension of the Christian faith. I doubt one can find a party more anti-Christ than the DNC when it comes to political platforms, but the GOP is not much better when it comes to its own leadership. We cannot look to the world (i.e., political parties) to accomplish the things of the Kingdom. It is best to stand for Christ regardless of political opinion.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Might I suggest taking your stand with Christ instead?

The problem I see with politics is that people are starting to see the GOP or the DNC as somehow an extension of the Christian faith. I doubt one can find a party more anti-Christ than the DNC when it comes to political platforms, but the GOP is not much better when it comes to its own leadership. We cannot look to the world (i.e., political parties) to accomplish the things of the Kingdom. It is best to stand for Christ regardless of political opinion.

I most certainly do and suggest that you look at yourself and your activities to ensure that you will too.

 

[Calminian]

You misrepresent my position. Try answering questions in a more Christian way. As the Bible say: By their fruits you shall know them.

I agree, you'll know them by their fruit. You accused the President of being pro-abortion, while you support pro-abortion candidates, and while he's appointing pro-life judges. I'd say that's some very telling fruit.

 

[JonC]

I most certainly do and suggest that you look at yourself and your activities to ensure that you will too.

I'm glad, and yes, I also do daily. Thankfully God disciplines me and points out my failings.....also daily as I have a bunch. But this the life of a child of God - He disciplines His own and we learn, moving from glory to glory.

These types of threads are typically lopsided. My comment was more to the effect that a Democrat lacks the moral ground to question the activities of a Republican....and probably vise-versa. Our hope is not in a political party, and even more less in the liberal Christianity of men like Jimmy Carter (who can't discern if Christ is the "only way" to salvation).

 

[Calminian]

Might I suggest taking your stand with Christ instead?

The problem I see with politics is that people are starting to see the GOP or the DNC as somehow an extension of the Christian faith. I doubt one can find a party more anti-Christ than the DNC when it comes to political platforms, but the GOP is not much better when it comes to its own leadership. We cannot look to the world (i.e., political parties) to accomplish the things of the Kingdom. It is best to stand for Christ regardless of political opinion.

I don't think that's what politically conservative Christians are doing though. You might have done that yourself, but if you did, it was based on a misunderstanding of Scripture. Now it appears you're going to the other extreme and throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

The GOP is currently the only viable party that stands for biblical principles, such as life, justice and nationalism. These are the simple essential functions of government according to Scripture (Genesis 11, Romans 13). If the GOP moves away from these principles, Christians will look for another avenue, but until then, we should support them.

What many Christians are doing now is becoming apolitical, which is the biggest mistake of this generation. It's foolish in fact. God does not want us to give up on justice, life and nationalism just because some politicians are unbelievers and less than perfect. Government is not the Church and Church standards don't apply to them. Government's job is simple. Protect the innocent and punish the guilty within the borders of their authority (authority given by God). That's it. We're not electing pastors and frankly many pastors would not be qualified to govern. It's a totally different job description.

We as Christians need expect Governors to do what they are appointed to do, and the Church to do what they are appointed to do. Once you have that distinction, confusion fades.

 

[JonC]

I don't think that's what politically conservative Christians are doing though.

Your comment that "[t]he GOP is currently the only viable party that stands for biblical principles, such as life, justice and nationalism" seems to affirm my concern. What worldly politics stands for is worldly politics. Can Christians support these parties where they affirm godly values? Sure they can (and should). But not under the misconception that what those parties are standing for are "biblical principles".

As an example - Jimmy Carter could not determine Gandhi, a Hindu, was lost. Why? Because of the shared "biblical principles" upon which Gandhi stood. Those principles may be common things shared between Hinduism and Christianity, but how they were held by Gandhi made them something other than "biblical". "Life, justice, and nationalism" in and of itself - as, for example, a political agenda - are not biblical principles as they are absent the Christ-centeredness that makes those principles "Christian".

I do not support the GOP. I support the agendas of the GOP insofar as the expression of my faith materializes in such support. That is the difference between standing for Christ and standing for a political party as an extension of one's faith.

 

[Yeshua1]

You misrepresent my position. Try answering questions in a more Christian way. As the Bible say: By their fruits you shall know them.

What fruit though? the one done 20 years ago before any claim of salvation, or the ones that fake news media Dems state that he has been doing?

 

[FollowTheWay]

I'm glad, and yes, I also do daily. Thankfully God disciplines me and points out my failings.....also daily as I have a bunch. But this the life of a child of God - He disciplines His own and we learn, moving from glory to glory.

These types of threads are typically lopsided. My comment was more to the effect that a Democrat lacks the moral ground to question the activities of a Republican....and probably vise-versa. Our hope is not in a political party, and even more less in the liberal Christianity of men like Jimmy Carter (who can't discern if Christ is the "only way" to salvation).

"My comment was more to the effect that a Democrat lacks the moral ground to question the activities of a Republican."
That's an inherently ridiculous and heretical statement. Perhaps it's equivalent in the first century to saying "Gentiles can never become Christians." Tell me exactly how Jimmy Carter holds "liberal Christian" beliefs. Give me a Carter quote that says he believes that Christ is not the only way to God, please.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I agree, you'll know them by their fruit. You accused the President of being pro-abortion, while you support pro-abortion candidates, and while he's appointing pro-life judges. I'd say that's some very telling fruit.

You've been thoroughly indoctrinated by the GOP. I'm waiting to see them reverse their Roe vs. Wade decision. Murdering the born is just as bad as murdering the unborn.

 

[Calminian]

You've been thoroughly indoctrinated by the GOP. I'm waiting to see them reverse their Roe vs. Wade decision. Murdering the born is just as bad as murdering the unborn.

A president can't reveres Roe v. Wade. Only the courts can. Trump is 1 - 2 appointments away. (how is it possible you don't know this?)

And are you now accusing the President of murdering children? Do you have links to back this up? Any evidence at all? Or just another false accusation?