The hidden danger of legalism

[EdSutton]

I've never seen a thread on antinomianism on the BB, ...

Because we care, :smilewinkgrin:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36875&highlight=Antinomian

Ed

 

[John of Japan]

Because we care, :smilewinkgrin:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36875&highlight=Antinomian

Ed

I feel all warm and cozy. Thanks, Ed!

 

[dh1948]

Hairspray

I am sure these situations exist... for instance I was on another Baptist message board, a IFB board, a couple weeks ago, and I saw a thread something like, "Should a man wear pink?" Or maybe it was Purple.. I don't remember the specific color now, but the idea was if a man wore a certain color, they were less of a man.

I have been in one situation that I will share here.

In 1998 our family was attending a IFB church.. The pastor was a very strict fundamentalist with a lot of Charisma... He preached against other versions, any music that was not a hymn, and was an avid "Be here for Tuesday Soulwinning, or your not right with God" preacher... (not that soulwinning is bad, but don't lay guilt trips on your parishoners in order to get them to do what you want)

One Sunday, one of my cousins brought their teenage neighbor to church. He was 16 or 17 and they set about 4 pews back from the altar.
This boy had his ear pierced...

And while preaching, the pastor looked at him and said that only queers pierce their ears... or women.

That boy was never back, and it only took me a couple weeks to get out of their also.

I hope this answers your question.

If the above scenario was not so pitiful it would be funny. I was just thinking...Is the use of hairspray by men forbidden in Scripture? Let's do a poll and see how many men who are members on this board use hairspray.

Search the Scriptures...I will give you $1,000.00 in cash if you can produce a definitive verse that says He used hairspray. The Bible teaches that we are to be like Jesus, right? OK, then, if we are to be like Jesus, we must not only do the things He did, but we must not do the things that He did not do.

Since Jesus did not use hairspray, neither should we guys. Come on, now, ya'll help me out here. Let's hear some amens out there!

 

[Crabtownboy]

If the above scenario was not so pitiful it would be funny. I was just thinking...Is the use of hairspray by men forbidden in Scripture? Let's do a poll and see how many men who are members on this board use hairspray.

Search the Scriptures...I will give you $1,000.00 in cash if you can produce a definitive verse that says He used hairspray. The Bible teaches that we are to be like Jesus, right? OK, then, if we are to be like Jesus, we must not only do the things He did, but we must not do the things that He did not do.

Since Jesus did not use hairspray, neither should we guys. Come on, now, ya'll help me out here. Let's hear some amens out there!

Somehow I doubt seriously there was any hairspray when Jesus was on earth. Now men and women may have slicked down their hair with some type of oil or grease, but I am knowledgable about that. Maybe someone here can tell us about hair practices in those days.

 

[Bro. James]

"Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God; there are none righteous, not one."--all would be considered legalistic by some paradigms.

We have trouble with the teaching: "All of our righteousness is as filthy rags."

Preach The Word; reprove rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and DOCTRINE. Let the Holy Spirit bear witness to the truth.

Will The Lord find The Faith, once, for all, delivered to the Saints (not Peterine) when He returns?

"Legalism" is usually a cop out to addressing conflicts of doctrine, by those who are swayed by every wind of doctrine.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[sag38]

Crabby, I sense a note of sarcasm in dh1948's post. Personally, I'm glad I don't have to wear the clothes they wore in Jesus' day. Plus, I'm especially glad that we bathe a lot more than just our feet on a daily basis.

 

[Salamander]

Salamander, have we touched a nerve with you? I know a legalist when I see one. It's one thing to avoid gender confusion and it doesn't necessarily have to do with "pants." A legalistic pastor I know ran the cleaning lady out of the sanctuary because she dared to wear pants in there. And, while it is nice to hear some one else call me a "Christian" it's not their reward that I'm looking for. I'd much rather hear, "Well done thou good and faithful servant." And, legalism won't cut the mustard in regards to that desire.

So you think that pastor is a legalist for confronting her with her misguided dress pertaining to that of a man?

I thought those who hold to any position in the church were to be ensamples not corroborators with the world!

 

[Salamander]

If you believe that by doing certain things, God Loves you more than he loves me, I will not burst your holy bubble...

Where and when have I ever given you that impression? Please quote!

I am not in the mood right now to even argue over this....

Is it legalistic to suggest one NOT be controlled by their "moods"?

I am sick of self righteous Christians that always complain and gripe about their brothers and sisters in Christ.

I am too! But I'm also worried that too many fail to see the need for setting the right examples before a lost and dying world and rather instead are bowing to the worlds demands to accept them for their lack of godliness!

I told my wife tonight that I can understand why the world doesn't want to serve God, when half the time I get sooo frustrated by Christians that think they are better than other Christians!

Then PREACH the devil out of them and STOP COMPLAINING about the COMPLAINERS!
:smilewinkgrin:

I have a feeling that if we go by your list of dos and don'ts, I wouldn't measure up to you.
Heck, If we go by the list of dos and don'ts in the Bible, I don't measure up to you...

I find Christ to be the only measuring stick anywhere in the Bible, what you're suggesting is just another emotional outburst of sorts. Hope your mood improves soon.

All my righteousness is based on Christ's perfect life.

Good, it should!

So, if it makes you feel better that you are "more holier" than me...

I'll agree...

Quote?

If it wasn't for my love and appreciation of Christ, I would throw in the towel, and give up!

Um, where has the Lord ever provided a clothes-hamper to throw this "towel" into?

I still believe you are getting too emotional here.

I believe it like this! If you can "quit" on God, then maybe it would be to your profit as to not depress and discourage others along the way who see the needs of the lost and those who are doing their best to serve the Lord, and NOT serve the world!

I find NO PLACE to turn around on God or to QUIT! Too much at stake! Hope you would agree with me in at least that much!:godisgood:

 

[Salamander]

Very good~

Yes, but now tell us what God's standards are?

I like your tag, but I did see a van with the logo "ObamaKing" the other day, it was truly a sign of the times and very encouraging that my redemption draweth nigh!:godisgood:

 

[Salamander]

I have a question if it's ok. Do you know, based on your experience, if these kind of churches normally question folks masculinity and feminity for no apparent reason? Even with normal looking people wearing normal dress attire which is actually more modest for that area?

Like maybe IFB's are stuck on a woman "being ladylike etc.."? Even despite the fact the bible uses the term woman and mere human beings cannot take away the fact they are a woman.

They don't become more of a woman or "more womanly" because of wearing dresses, not wearing pants etc...

Hope you understand what I am trying to say. Almost like promoting the gay agenda, questioning one's s*xuality yet they stop right before the point of going that far. Hope this makes sense...

I think you should learn to differentiate between a "woman" and a "lady". Or maybe you have a problem with the "elect lady"?

 

[Salamander]

I am sure these situations exist... for instance I was on another Baptist message board, a IFB board, a couple weeks ago, and I saw a thread something like, "Should a man wear pink?" Or maybe it was Purple.. I don't remember the specific color now, but the idea was if a man wore a certain color, they were less of a man.

OK, for your next baby boy, make everything pink including the annoucements and balloons and bows on your mailbox about your new baby "BOY"!:laugh:

I have been in one situation that I will share here.

In 1998 our family was attending a IFB church.. The pastor was a very strict fundamentalist with a lot of Charisma... He preached against other versions, any music that was not a hymn, and was an avid "Be here for Tuesday Soulwinning, or your not right with God" preacher... (not that soulwinning is bad, but don't lay guilt trips on your parishoners in order to get them to do what you want)

"Parishoners"? I thought they were all catholics?

One Sunday, one of my cousins brought their teenage neighbor to church. He was 16 or 17 and they set about 4 pews back from the altar.
This boy had his ear pierced...

And while preaching, the pastor looked at him and said that only queers pierce their ears... or women.

That boy was never back, and it only took me a couple weeks to get out of their also.

I hope this answers your question.

So you think that pagan idolatries ought to be left unaddressed and the god of this world to keep having that foothold on the lives of others????

Even Joseph had earrings, noserings, etc. but guess where he was at the time??? EGYPT!

Should we be serving leeks, onions and garlic in God's house or let Him prepare the table in this wilderness we call Earth?

You're being liberally legalistic here.

 

[Salamander]

Crabby, I sense a note of sarcasm in dh1948's post. Personally, I'm glad I don't have to wear the clothes they wore in Jesus' day. Plus, I'm especially glad that we bathe a lot more than just our feet on a daily basis.

Um, the key is knowing in any day there have been distinguishments in clothing to determine who it is that wore them, except today when we live in a liberal mindset of "anything goes" and nothing to be denied.

Deut 22:5 only makes the concreteness of there is to be a distinction, it is not a debatable milestone to implicate cultural idealogies of that day as comparable to present to determine anything else.

God deals alot with the form of things. Clothes that reveal the form of any individual to determine gender is guilty of using sexuality to make that distinction and incorporates that method which can very easily cause lust.

Lust when it hath conceived bringeth forth sin, and sin when it is finished bringeth forth DEATH!

I guess we'll just have to go on living knowing the god of this world still blinds the minds of men so they cannot understand this wile of the devil!

 

[nodak]

I am continually amazed that we are so prone to take the standards of 50 years ago and consider them higher standards.

My grandma did that 50 years ago. And I bet her grandma did also.

I believe in missions--in cross cultural evangelism. I am not out to make someone 1955 white middle class american. I am out to lead them to Jesus.

So if I want to reach senior citizens I may dress conservatively, use old hymns, and the kjv.

If I want to reach my immigrant neighbors I will dress quite simply, speak spanish, and use a Spanish Bible.

If want to reach the local teens, I will use rock sounding choruses and the cev or message.

If I want to reach the corporate type or middle class soccer mom, music will be adult contemporary christian music, nasb or niv or nlt.

If I want to reach roughnecks on the rigs, I will use country gospel and the niv.

Same Jesus. Same gospel. Different "languages" so to speak.

One can be quite fundamentalist in theology without buying into fundamentalism's cultural markers.

But then I also believe in soul competency. I believe if God told you to chuck your tv you had better chuck it. But I might be using mine constructively and not receive the same marching orders.

Are we out to preserve a certain culture, or to lead the world to faith in Jesus?

 

[Joe]

I think you should learn to differentiate between a "woman" and a "lady". Or maybe you have a problem with the "elect lady"?

I should learn to differentiate between a "woman" and a "lady"?

I follow the bible so it's not my concern to define the secular term "lady".

 

[Joe]

I am continually amazed that we are so prone to take the standards of 50 years ago and consider them higher standards.

My grandma did that 50 years ago. And I bet her grandma did also.

I believe in missions--in cross cultural evangelism. I am not out to make someone 1955 white middle class american. I am out to lead them to Jesus.

So if I want to reach senior citizens I may dress conservatively, use old hymns, and the kjv.

If I want to reach my immigrant neighbors I will dress quite simply, speak spanish, and use a Spanish Bible.

If want to reach the local teens, I will use rock sounding choruses and the cev or message.

If I want to reach the corporate type or middle class soccer mom, music will be adult contemporary christian music, nasb or niv or nlt.

If I want to reach roughnecks on the rigs, I will use country gospel and the niv.

Same Jesus. Same gospel. Different "languages" so to speak.

One can be quite fundamentalist in theology without buying into fundamentalism's cultural markers.

But then I also believe in soul competency. I believe if God told you to chuck your tv you had better chuck it. But I might be using mine constructively and not receive the same marching orders.

Are we out to preserve a certain culture, or to lead the world to faith in Jesus?

Hi Nodak

I see your point and agree witnessing to the lost should take precedence over preserving a certain culture but it does indicate that the old paths are often the biblical way to go

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

 

[HankD]

The Bible teaches that we are to be like Jesus, right? OK, then, if we are to be like Jesus, we must not only do the things He did, but we must not do the things that He did not do

I guess I'm OK I have a beard and I don't shave.

HankD

 

[nodak]

Joe--agreed. However, those "old paths" are NOT cultural, but relationship with God.

Example: we consider pink to be a feminine culture, see a guy in a pink shirt, and gasp that he is not following the "old path". Except HE IS. Just a hundred years ago pink was a boy color, and dilute version of the manly red.

In some parts of the west, folks are very well educated in the greek and hebrew background of our Bible. So they see a guy in a three piece suit and think "there goes a guy in soft raiment--must be homosexual or he would be in manly jeans."

Some women read the text about our beauty not being the putting on of dresses, or costly array, or elaborate hairstyles. We wear our best slacks or jeans with a modest appropriate top and trot off to worship. We might see a lady all "duded up" and think how much better it would be if she exhibited a submissive spirit rather than a vain one. Or think the money spent on pantyhose would feed a family in Nigeria for a year!

Get the point? "Our" middleclass conservative USA culture of 1955 is NOT the old path blessed by God. It is just our culture. Nothing more.

If we let it be more, it becomes an idol and we have left the old paths.

 

[Joe]

Joe--agreed. However, those "old paths" are NOT cultural, but relationship with God.

Example: we consider pink to be a feminine culture, see a guy in a pink shirt, and gasp that he is not following the "old path". Except HE IS. Just a hundred years ago pink was a boy color, and dilute version of the manly red.

In some parts of the west, folks are very well educated in the greek and hebrew background of our Bible. So they see a guy in a three piece suit and think "there goes a guy in soft raiment--must be homosexual or he would be in manly jeans."

Some women read the text about our beauty not being the putting on of dresses, or costly array, or elaborate hairstyles. We wear our best slacks or jeans with a modest appropriate top and trot off to worship. We might see a lady all "duded up" and think how much better it would be if she exhibited a submissive spirit rather than a vain one. Or think the money spent on pantyhose would feed a family in Nigeria for a year!

Get the point? "Our" middleclass conservative USA culture of 1955 is NOT the old path blessed by God. It is just our culture. Nothing more.

If we let it be more, it becomes an idol and we have left the old paths.

Wonderful :thumbs: Our Pastor is very hung up on dress attire, as is the church women to the point most of his preaching is not biblical concerning dress attire. I never thought of dress attire as an Idol, thank you.

 

[webdog]

The Bible teaches that we are to be like Jesus, right? OK, then, if we are to be like Jesus, we must not only do the things He did, but we must not do the things that He did not do

...and I suppose Salamander wears a robe and sandals to church. If he wears a ...gasp...suit and tie...he is not doing what Jesus did!

 

[sag38]

Sal isn't so much concerned with what he wears or so it seems. I gather that he's more interested in what women wear. According to what I've read so far, a burka is about the only thing that would meet the standard. Afterall, a man can be tempted by a woman's face as much as her body. So, let's cover that up too. That way we can keep her figure and her face hidden from the world protecting men from looking at her in the wrong way.