The Holocaust God's Judgment

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So therefore all time statements are useless to us? God was unable to put into words, we could understand, His timetable for events?

Granted, it is not unreasonable to use an expression of imminence or brevity in reference to a relatively long period of time, (II Cor. 4:17) but it is biblically unreasonable to interpret every statement of eschatological imminence throughout the New Testament as meaning "2,000 years later." If we are going to claim scriptural support for such a hermeneutical approach, the only option is to make II Peter 3:8 ("With the Lord a day is like a thousand years") a "Code Key" that unlocks the "secret" meaning of the Spirit. But not only is that method Gnostic-like, it makes eschatology (and ultimately, soteriology) utterly impossible to understand correctly without the mystical elucidation of II Peter 3:8 (and Ps. 90:4).

 

Yet, the Jews were not the only ones targeted in the Holocaust!

These theories of the Holocaust being God's wrath against the Jews do not take into account the plain facts of history! How can this theological interpretation of history be true if it is not based on a true history?

 

concerning suffering, jews have their promises from god, christians are promised that everything works out for their good (including suffering), but to all the unsaved there are no promises made at all - every moment they are not cast into hell is an expression of god's mercy, which they have no claim to.

so, what's the problem here?

 

1/3 of all jews died in the holocaust. surely this has some theological meaning?

 

concerning suffering, jews have their promises from god, christians are promised that everything works out for their good (including suffering), but to all the unsaved there are no promises made at all - every moment they are not cast into hell is an expression of god's mercy, which they have no claim to.

so, what's the problem here? </font>[/QUOTE]First it is argue that the Holocaust was specifically God's wrath toward the Jews, then when that is challenged by the actual facts, you claim that it is God's wrath against everyone.

You need to pick your position. You can't allege that both are specifically true.

 

I don't think any reasonable man can deny that the second World War was a demonstration of God's wrath against the whole world, albeit only a foretaste of the wrath to come. But the Holocaust was directd especially against the Jews and, therefore, it is no stretch to say that it is a particular judgment against them. </font>[/QUOTE]Part of the Holocaust was directed at the Jews, but not all of it.

1.) Christians who resisted Hitler were murdered. Does that mean that God approved of those Christians who did not resist Hitler?

2.) Handicapped people were systematically murdered. Does that mean that God was showing his wrath against those who are handicapped?

3.) Russians faced severe hardship and were often murdered and sent to the death camps one they could not be used for slave labor anymore. Does that mean that God was pouring out his wrath on Russians?

Jews were an ethnic minority in Europe before the war.

You would be hard pressed to prove that there weren’t. Since you are making the allegation, the proof is for you to provide.

It’s not astonishing, it’s just obviously wrong.

Just because you can’t figure out another answer does not mean you are correct.

Sinful people do sinful things. Human sin has the capacity to do everything evil that was done during World War II without the need to attribute it to God.

 

Humanity is profoundly wicked.

 

Mark Osgatharp

I don't agree, but do you think that slavery is God's judgment on blacks? Same logic.

 

concerning suffering, jews have their promises from god, christians are promised that everything works out for their good (including suffering), but to all the unsaved there are no promises made at all - every moment they are not cast into hell is an expression of god's mercy, which they have no claim to.

so, what's the problem here? </font>[/QUOTE]First it is argue that the Holocaust was specifically God's wrath toward the Jews, then when that is challenged by the actual facts, you claim that it is God's wrath against everyone.

You need to pick your position. You can't allege that both are specifically true. </font>[/QUOTE]why not? can god not accomplish two ends through one action?

 

do blacks have a covenantal relationship with god tying their prosperity and peace in this world to their obedience?

 

Because this wasn't a war againt a people for religious reasons but a war derived from the evil maniacle attempt to anialate anyone who was not tall blonde, blue eyed, of optimum health a "Master Race". I've seen this thread use sodomites as a rationale for this viewpoint. But how do you account for the gypsy's, Catholic clergymen, blind, deaf, infirm, brunette, red head, short, old? Not to mention anyone who opposed Hitler.

If Hitlers Aryan Master Race ideal, the fuel behind the Holocaust , were truly the wrath of God, then wouldn't that mean that Hitler was right? The only people that had God's blessing were Tall, Blonde, Blue Eyed and completely healthy? Because everyone who did not fit that criteria was targetted by this regime.

Do you know anything about this subject? Or are you just trying to get it to fit your arguement?

 

I think God was really after Dietrich Boenhoffer - I mean he must have REALLY offended God and all, being the wonderful theologian that he was.

Perhaps God is blessing the Jewish people now considering that per capita they are more wealthy than the non-Jews. Why is that?

 

true, but what about this?

Deuteronomy 7
12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: 13 And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee. 14 Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.

perhaps this only applies in israel, "in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee"?

 

Mark,

I have to say to you that I find your views highly offensive, and highly inconsistent. They are offensive and blasphemous to God, portraying Him as genocidal and siding with the Nazis. They are offensively anti-Semitic, regarding the Jews as having so dreadfully offended God so much more than the rest of us that He just has to wipe them out. And they are offensive personally to me as a European Christian -apparently we're all godless Catholics or atheists who deserve everything we get and whom God hates with a vengeance. (You might as well go and join up with Jerry Falwell and say that 9/11 was God's judgment on a 'godless' America.) Indeed, God quite clearly hates Europeans so much that He used Hitler to imprison and execute His people such as Martin Niemoller, Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Helmuth James von Moltke.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Come on, Grasshopper. I have already told you that these words pose no problem for those who take the time to understand them and study what they mean. You have taken English words as we use them today. But these words originally were different and you must understand them there. I have explanations for all those. They have been explained in so many places for so long a time it is inexcusable to continue on believing that they cannot be answered. I am talking about undeniably obvious words, words such as I gave above, words used in clear prophecy such as the New Covenant and other places. Don't play these silly little games.