The Holy Roman Catholic Church...

Matt Black,

A glance at the Theology forum here will show Romans 14...and other passages...being lived out:

"Let your brother be fully convinced in his own mind...Who are you to judge anothers servant?"

The scriptures are clear that concerning non-foundational issues we have freedom regarding our convictions. Its actually an exceedingly healthy thing, as you would expect considering its Gods idea.

As an example, the arminians serve to help keep the calvinists from going to far in one direction and becoming out of balance. The calvinists help to keep the arminians from going to the same extreme in the other direction.

When you have absolutly no "checks and balances system" in place...as with the Teaching Majesterium of the CC, who are neither accountable to the scriptures or the "laity"...then you see for 1600 years now an overflow of false teaching and idolatry running rampant and unchecked for the whole world to see.

What a horrific thing it is.

God bless,

Mike

 

Sirach,

I have shown you.

As has DHK and Steaver. I have shown you...extensively...from the scriptures and from the Council of Trent cursings. I have gone "above and beyond" in showing you extensively what you asked for. Very long posts. Filled with extensive proof. So has DHK. Steaver has shown you from the Catechism.

You asked us to show you. We have shown you. Its obvious from your posts that you are a bright person. You dont appear to have any learning disorders or anything like that. You are a smart guy/gal.

We have shown you, as you have requested.

You now have a choice to make.

The gospel of Rome...which God curses in Galaciens.

Or Gods gospel, which Rome curses in the Trent declarations.

God bless,

Mike

 

I know what the Catholic Church teaches.
I know what the Catholic Church saysit teaches. (There is a difference.
I know what the Catholic Church taught me.

I also know what the Bible teaches, and that is the difference between you and me.

Catholics pray to "the saints in heaven." These are dead people. Catholics are therefore praying to the dead. This is called necromancy. Catholics will deny this because of what they have been taught by their own religion, and not by the Bible. They don't know the Bible well enough to know better. The bodies of the people you are praying to are dead and in the grave. Who are you praying to then? Dead people. The resurrection has not yet taken place. These people are dead and in the grave, like every person that dies today--they are dead--including Mary.
DHK

 

Sirach,

You posted this to me....

You are mistaken on Catholic teaching. You have something taken out of context and have applied assumptions to a snippet.</font>[/QUOTE]You are attributing someone elses quote to me.

That quote you are attributing to me came from Steavers post at 8:27pm on March 8th. Its about 2 or 3 pages back. Please adress Steaver concerning that quote, since he/she said it.

But regarding your general claim, this is so simple, Sirach.

Gods gospel, the only one that will save anyone, is a gospel that will only result in salvation if it is accessed by faith in Jesus Christ ALONE. That has been shown to you. And if you dont believe the catholcs deny the gospel, just watch them come running to argue against anyone who does not add works to that gospel. Are they are liars? You say the Catholic Church does not deny we are justified through faith alone, but every Catholic I have ever spoken with in person of on these or other boards argues vehemently against that gospel truth and says it is a lie.

Are all of these Catholics liars, are they just decieved about what thier church teaches?

If people become overly legalistic after someone is born again, that is problematic...but it does not negate the salvation they have attained. It only causes them to be walking legalistically rather than in the freedom and liberty of the Spirit.

But if legalistic conditions are added to what is required to be justified, then that is a much worse problem because God has cursed that particular false gospel.

It has been shown to you that Gods gospel is justification through faith alone.

It has been shown to you...from Catholic sources...that the Catholic gospel of Rome requires that a person adds works to faith in order to be justified. This is the very false gospel that God curses in galaciens.

Also, it has been shown to you...from Catholic sources...that the Catholic Church *officially* places their CURSE on the gospel of Jesus Christ(justification through faith alone), by cursing anyone who believes that gospel.

I dont know what more we can do to help you. It almost makes me wonder if you have a whole family full of Catholics and maybe you cant bear the thought of most of them are probably not saved or something...I dont know. I'm not saying that, I'm just thinking out loud and wondering why you keep saying we arent showing you something when we have shown you about a million times.

Very frustrating.

Mike

 

DHK and Mike, I would take issue with your contention that the disagreements in the Theology Forum are trivial. I think those on millenialism are trivial personally and therefore find it both comic and tragic that they have run to such great lengths with a lot of polemic and invective; but the point is that the guys posting there DON'T consider them trivial.

But in any event, I only gave the millenialism threads as one area of disagreement. I could give you others: Calvinism v Arminianism (heck, we have an entire Forum dedicated to that!), cessationism vs charismatics, covenant theology vs dispensationalism etc, all claiming to be based on Scripture and all tending to degenerate into polemic and mutual anathematising (so much for these not being 'salvation issues' to the protagonists!). Who is right and on what basis; this is where Sola Scriptura blatantly does not work

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

God is not the author of confusion.

Satan is the author of confusion.

Are we having difficulty with "not"?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Thanks for backing me up! I dare you to tell those up in the Theology Forum what you just posted...

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Catholics pray to "the saints in heaven." These are dead people. Catholics are therefore praying to the dead. This is called necromancy. Catholics will deny this because of what they have been taught by their own religion, and not by the Bible. They don't know the Bible well enough to know better. The bodies of the people you are praying to are dead and in the grave. Who are you praying to then? Dead people. The resurrection has not yet taken place. These people are dead and in the grave, like every person that dies today--they are dead--including Mary.
DHK [/QB][/QUOTE]


No-one disputes that the body of a person lies in the grave, but I for one believe that the dead persons soul persists, the soul is judged and from there your destination is Heaven or Hell....

So according to this other train of thought is the soul dead or in a emphemeral state or what?

What do you believe?

 

Explain the difference between a living person and a dead person. When a person dies how do they become alive again. Do you raise from the dead or do they wait for the resurrection? A dead person is a dead person. Why does the Catholic Church redefine "dead?" What is the difference between what you do and "the witch of Endor" in the Bible, people who take part in seances, the mediums of today that involve themselves with the paranormal, etc. People do claim to talk to the dead, and so do you. What is the difference. The governor general of Quebec claims to talk to her grand-parents regularly (who died some time ago). She is a spiritualist. What is the difference between her beliefs and yours? You are praying to dead people just like a spiritualist does. It is necromancy--condemned in the Bible. No, I wouldn't have believed that either when I was a Catholic. But now that I have been saved, God has opened my eyes to the Scriptures which reveal these things to me.

Ephesians 3:14-16 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Paul's prayer is the the Father in heaven that he would grant to the believers in the church at Ephesus to be strengthened with might by his Spirit.

Read the context! Understand what is being said!
It says absolutely nothing about praying to anyone in Heaven. It says "of CHRIST, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named," a reference to the fact that we all are followers of Christ, or Christians. It has nothing to do with praying to anyone but God alone.

Ye do err not knowing the Scriptures, neither the power of God." Looking at Catholic doctrine from the Bible's point of view puts Catholic doctrine in a whole different light and therefore it seems different to you. I am stating what the Catholic Church believes from a Biblical point of view. Yes I do know the heretical views of the Catholic Church.

Your statement is quite laughable actually, (or sad), as I have mentioned more than once before. This is the typical Catholic response. I here it all the time. The truth is that my father was in business that required us to move every 3 to 4 years. Are you going to blame all the parishes?? I missed something? I don't think so. You (as other Catholics) love playing the typical blame game, and judge that which you know nothing thereof.
[QUOTEThe Catholic Church can be fully backed up by their interpretation of the Scriptures. [/QUOTE]
This is where you are wrong, and it has been shown to you time and time again where you are wrong. But a man convinced against his will remains the same opinion still.
Mike and Steaver both have shown you from the Scriptures how the Catholic Church teachings contradict the Bible in so many places. I have done the same thing. You turn a blind eye. You will not believe--like the Pharisees of old. They were stuck in their Tradition which Jesus condemned. You are stuck in yours, which the Bible condemns.

Your doctrine is not being misrepresented; it is being exposed for what it is--false. We don't hate you; it is the doctrine of the Catholic church (its heresy) that is hated.

Most of us have the same resources that you do, if not more. I have shelves of books on Catholicism, and know where the different resources are on the web as well. That is not the point. You take things wrong. It is not the person, but the doctrine that is heretical. That being said, if the person goes on pushing that doctrine and teaching it, he becomes a heretic. Which way will you go?
DHK

 

Matt Black,

Who said they are "trivial"? Not me. I never said they are trivial, only that we are free to our convictions regarding non-foundational issues.

The Catholic church doesnt give their people freedom regarding their convictions, but God does give freedom to His.

God bless,

Mike

 

Bro James,

Thats the reason why I fled Catholicism.

When I was finally able to "see" the confusing, contradictory and heretical mess that is the theology of the Catholic Church, I fled it "like the plague".

Mike

 

Sirach,

Nobody is bearing false witness. We are sharing with you the truth regarding the Catholic Church. You are refusing to believe it.

Jesus said that..."You will know them by their fruit."

Catholic Church...

Teaches contrary to Gods truth regarding the truth of justification through faith alone.

Teaches contrary to Gods truth regarding revelation, and invents its own teology...calling it "sacred tradition", which God specifically warns against.

Teaches contrary to Gods truth...and exactly like cults like JW's. Mormons, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc...that their people have no freedom of convictions regarding non-foundational things, and commands them to be in subjection to Romes declarations.

Teaches contrary to Gods truth regarding the "priesthood of all believers", and invents a hiearchial monstrosity of control and error filled with false "priests".

Evangelicalism...

Agrees with God that we are justified through faith alone.

Agrees with God that we are to turn only to the scriptures for our authority regarding theology, doctrine, and morality, .

Agrees with God regarding the freedom that all christians are given by God regarding non-foundational issiues.

Agrees with God regarding the scriptural truth of the "priesthood of all believers".

It should be an easy choice to make.

Sadly,

Mike

 

Sirach,

Have you been doing as God instructs and "testing" every word of that against Gods truth found in the scriptures...and throwing in the garbage can everything that is proven false?

"TEST all things, and hold fast to that which is true"

"And these were more fairminded than those at Thessolanica, in that they searched the SCRIPTURES daily, to see whether these tings be so."

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in rightiousness, that the man of God might be complete, and thoroughly equipped for every good work"

Mike

 

Sirach,

They why do all Catholics...unanimously...always argue against that on these and any other boards?

Catholics unanimously and consistently argue against the truth that we are to turn to the scriptures ourselves, with the Holy Spirit as our teacher, and develop our convictions in that way. They consistently argue that that leads to all of these "contradictory teachings", and all of the (supposedly) 30,000 denominations all disagreeing with each other.

Are all these Catholics ignorant of their own churchs teaching?

No, they are not.

All that you posted is to be understood by the Catholic only in light of the false idea that they make sure to believe everything the inerrant "Teaching Majesterium" of the "inerrant" Hiearchy teaches as being true doctrine.

Do your research and find out what the Catholic Church teaches regarding the "Teaching Majesterium" and the Catholic laities obligation regarding it.

Mike