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The Holy Spirit and Christ
- Thread starter ryarn
- Start date
The short answer is to fulfill scripture. God does as He pleases, and so He was pleased to become flesh for us. After His water baptism, the Holy Spirit came upon Him, like a dove (Luke 3:22) This was His anointing with the Holy Spirit and with power. (Luke 4:17-21)
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GoodTidings
Well-Known Member
The same question could be asked why Jesus prayed, or why was He baptized. He did so as a model for us. Jesus identified with us and lived as fully human and yet fully God. We cannot emulate Him in His deity, but we can emulate Him in His humanity, the things He modeled for us. Jesus modeled what the Christian life should look like.
Its part of the plan.
Spot on!"That the scripture might be fulfilled" answers a whoooole lot of Bible questions.
37818
Well-Known Member
He was in His becoming flesh an actual human being. Besides that, even as the Son of God He is not the person the Father or the person of the Holy Spirit.
Here is a blurb from a commentary:
"to fulfil all righteousness — To do whatsoever is just, fit, and requisite in our circumstances. Or, it becometh every messenger of God, and even every follower of mine, to observe every divine appointment, and to honour every divine ordinance. I therefore offer myself to be baptized, that I may show my readiness to obey all God’s righteous precepts, and to justify God and approve his counsel, Luke 7:29-30,
"to fulfil all righteousness — To do whatsoever is just, fit, and requisite in our circumstances. Or, it becometh every messenger of God, and even every follower of mine, to observe every divine appointment, and to honour every divine ordinance. I therefore offer myself to be baptized, that I may show my readiness to obey all God’s righteous precepts, and to justify God and approve his counsel, Luke 7:29-30,
37818
Well-Known Member
It can be so interpreted. Luke 12:50 that baptism is His death. Our water baptism is into His death, symbolizes His burial and resurrection, Romans 6:3-4.
Therefore you are saying, this from Matt 3:14,15 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
- is equivalent to this from -
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
And that this from Matt. 3:16 YLT And having been baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water,
- is equivalent to this -
from Acts 2:24 NSAB “[fn] Literally, Whom God raised up] But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the [fn] Literally birth pangs of death ] agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held [fn] Literally by it ] in its power.
Now I ask concerning the Spirit?
From Matt 3:16 KJV and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
- is it equilavent to -
Acts 2:32,33 YLT 'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father
Consider also:
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ps 2:7
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased Matt 3:17
And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: Acts 13:28-30
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Acts 13_33-35
Wh
When he was Incarnated, Jesus was and still is both fully God and fully Man, and as such, the Holy Spirit was in and upon Him as the anointed One of God.
When he was Incarnated, Jesus was and still is both fully God and fully Man, and as such, the Holy Spirit was in and upon Him as the anointed One of God.
37818
Well-Known Member
Wait. If the Holy Spirit was in and upon Him as the anointed One of God, how does that answer the question as to why then did the Holy Spirit need to come upon Him at His water baptism?
Why not?
The Holy Spirit came in the form of a dove, but did not come upon Him, as was already with and in Him!
According to some, Baptism must take place for the washing of sins. Christ apparently needed that, too?
According to some, Baptism must take place prior to the delivery of the Holy Spirit. Christ apparently need that, too?
According to some, those not Baptized are not saved. Christ apparently needed that, too?
OR
Christ was showing, demonstrating, picturing, that of which the children of God would emulate, just as He did with all His earthly ministry by demonstrating and teaching how to pray, the maturing of faith, the walk and outreach, dealing with the ungodly, placing total reliance upon the Father, ...
The ministry of our Savior was a teaching and demonstrating of how believers are to live.
He came with purpose to shed His blood, die, and be risen again. But that is not all that was involved in His ministry of imparting truth. If it were, He could have done that in three days, not thirty - three years.
According to some, Baptism must take place prior to the delivery of the Holy Spirit. Christ apparently need that, too?
According to some, those not Baptized are not saved. Christ apparently needed that, too?
OR
Christ was showing, demonstrating, picturing, that of which the children of God would emulate, just as He did with all His earthly ministry by demonstrating and teaching how to pray, the maturing of faith, the walk and outreach, dealing with the ungodly, placing total reliance upon the Father, ...
The ministry of our Savior was a teaching and demonstrating of how believers are to live.
He came with purpose to shed His blood, die, and be risen again. But that is not all that was involved in His ministry of imparting truth. If it were, He could have done that in three days, not thirty - three years.
37818
Well-Known Member
OK. But that does not explain the reason for the Holy Spirit's need for making His appearance in that way and at that time. I have John 1:3 and Genesis 1:2 in mind, along with John 1:2 and John 1:14, the Son of God changing to become fully human, without ceasing being God, Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1-3, Hebrews 1:2-3, John 1:9-10.
γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου From Matt 1:20 for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
Did he not have the Holy Spirit from birth. Yet that person was going to die. The very reason I ask; Is Matt 3:15-17 chronological prophetic?
Jesus died. Jesus said the moment before his death. Luke 23:46 YLT and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit.
because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit, 1 Peter 3:18 YLT
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Romans 8:11 YLT
God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee. Acts 13:33 YLT
'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- Acts 2:32,33
and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:35 YLT 'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; Acts 2:32,33 YLT
Is water baptism prophetic?
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
All the responses from all were great but may be the simple answer would be to identify him to John and his disciples and start his earthly ministry... Brother Glen
1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
All the responses from all were great but may be the simple answer would be to identify him to John and his disciples and start his earthly ministry... Brother Glen
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John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
All the responses from all were great but may be the simple answer would be to identify him to John and his disciples and start his earthly ministry... Brother Glen
Exactly what I attempted to communicate in post 16 though admittedly very poorly.
Our Lord's life was a demonstration for the benefit of others, not ourselves.
The same can actually be said about believer's baptism. It ultimately others by our own declaration of a change that has already taken place.