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The Holy Spirit and Salvation !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
Tenchi
Active Member
Read the rest of my post.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
It doesnt matter, your comment initially was so off
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Mathetes66
Member
Once again Brightfame, you are pulling Gal 5:22 out of its context. Paul is writing to people who have already been saved for awhile in various churches throughout Galatia. He is writing them primarily about not going back under the Law but continuing in THE SANCTIFYING WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, of which the fruit of the Spirit is a major part in those already saved & growing in Christ.
Gal 1:1,2 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ & God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothers who are with me, TO THE CHURCHES OF GALATIA: GRACE TO YOU & PEACE from God our Father & the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from THE PRESENT EVIL AGE, according to the will of our God & Father, 5to whom be the glory forever & ever. Amen.
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him WHO CALLED YOU IN THE GRACE OF CHRIST & are turning to a different gospel— 7not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you & want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 3:2-5 Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit & worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:16-18 Now to Abraham & HIS SEED WERE THE PROMISES MADE. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; BUT AS OF ONE & TO THY SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was 430 years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise...26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 4:4-7 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And BECAUSE YOU ARE SONS--God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.
Gal 5:1,13 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free & be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:16=18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit & ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit & the Spirit against the flesh & these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law...And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections & lusts.
Paul then contrasts the deeds of the flesh with those of the fruit of the Spirit FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN REGENERATED CHRISTIANS FOR YEARS--this is talking about SANCTIFICATION not justification & saved from the penalty of sin. Here in context, Paul is talking about sanctification -- being saved from the power of sin over our lives. Paul, in writing to the believers in the churches in the province of Galatia, is not talking about regeneration but sanctification and Gal 5:22 is in the middle of Paul talking about this. One cannot ignore the CONTEXT of Gal 5:22.
Gal 1:1,2 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ & God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothers who are with me, TO THE CHURCHES OF GALATIA: GRACE TO YOU & PEACE from God our Father & the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from THE PRESENT EVIL AGE, according to the will of our God & Father, 5to whom be the glory forever & ever. Amen.
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him WHO CALLED YOU IN THE GRACE OF CHRIST & are turning to a different gospel— 7not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you & want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 3:2-5 Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit & worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:16-18 Now to Abraham & HIS SEED WERE THE PROMISES MADE. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; BUT AS OF ONE & TO THY SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was 430 years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise...26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 4:4-7 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And BECAUSE YOU ARE SONS--God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.
Gal 5:1,13 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free & be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:16=18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit & ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit & the Spirit against the flesh & these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law...And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections & lusts.
Paul then contrasts the deeds of the flesh with those of the fruit of the Spirit FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN REGENERATED CHRISTIANS FOR YEARS--this is talking about SANCTIFICATION not justification & saved from the penalty of sin. Here in context, Paul is talking about sanctification -- being saved from the power of sin over our lives. Paul, in writing to the believers in the churches in the province of Galatia, is not talking about regeneration but sanctification and Gal 5:22 is in the middle of Paul talking about this. One cannot ignore the CONTEXT of Gal 5:22.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Belief of the Truth is Salvation !
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Salvation here is belief of the Truth and its part of Christ's Saving Work, the merits of it, which necessitates all for whom He died to believe the Truth. God from the beginning hath chosen them to this Salvation.
The word Salvation here is the greek word σωτηρία and means:
deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation: deliverance from the molestation of enemies
Unbelief/disobedience is an enemie, it holds all by nature prison to it. God hath concluded all in unbelief Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word concluded sugkleió means:
I enclose, shut in, make subject to.
Did you know that the devil is the enemy that holds us in unbelief ? Look at 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world[The devil] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Folks, the devil , the god of this world, is credited with holding men in unbelief, even after hearing the Word of God to be saved Lk 8:12
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Folks, the devil is an enemy against believing the Truth so that it converts to God !
But Christ through His death delivers those He dies for from their enemies, particularily spiritual enemies Lk 1:69-75
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; Satan, the devil hates those Christ died for !
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
The Holy Spirits sanctifying work in 2 Thess 2:13 implements the deliverance / saving of all for whom Christ died, from the enemy of unbelief. The devil cannot perform his enemy work here with success to them Christ died for Lk 8:12
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
See the devil here prevents conversion to belief of the Truth that was heard, however Christ delivers those He died for from the devil and this work of his !
Now, if we say that we believed the Truth by our own freewill, then we are claiming that we are our own saviour, this is blasphemy and antichrist ! See we have to be saved from the enemy of unbelief in order to belief of the Truth, and Christ is the Savior from Unbelief ! 5
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Salvation here is belief of the Truth and its part of Christ's Saving Work, the merits of it, which necessitates all for whom He died to believe the Truth. God from the beginning hath chosen them to this Salvation.
The word Salvation here is the greek word σωτηρία and means:
deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation: deliverance from the molestation of enemies
Unbelief/disobedience is an enemie, it holds all by nature prison to it. God hath concluded all in unbelief Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word concluded sugkleió means:
I enclose, shut in, make subject to.
Did you know that the devil is the enemy that holds us in unbelief ? Look at 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world[The devil] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Folks, the devil , the god of this world, is credited with holding men in unbelief, even after hearing the Word of God to be saved Lk 8:12
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Folks, the devil is an enemy against believing the Truth so that it converts to God !
But Christ through His death delivers those He dies for from their enemies, particularily spiritual enemies Lk 1:69-75
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; Satan, the devil hates those Christ died for !
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
The Holy Spirits sanctifying work in 2 Thess 2:13 implements the deliverance / saving of all for whom Christ died, from the enemy of unbelief. The devil cannot perform his enemy work here with success to them Christ died for Lk 8:12
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
See the devil here prevents conversion to belief of the Truth that was heard, however Christ delivers those He died for from the devil and this work of his !
Now, if we say that we believed the Truth by our own freewill, then we are claiming that we are our own saviour, this is blasphemy and antichrist ! See we have to be saved from the enemy of unbelief in order to belief of the Truth, and Christ is the Savior from Unbelief ! 5
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Mathetes66
No Im not, yet Im highlighting a truth found within the context of scripture, and you are resisting it. Its simple Faith and Faithfulness are fruit of the Spirit, none of this is in man naturally. Vs 22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Here is what is in man naturally Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
John Gill writes:
No Im not, yet Im highlighting a truth found within the context of scripture, and you are resisting it. Its simple Faith and Faithfulness are fruit of the Spirit, none of this is in man naturally. Vs 22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Here is what is in man naturally Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
John Gill writes:
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Why the Holy Spirit given before the Gospel sent ?
1 Cor 2:12
12 Now we [Believers] have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
The Spirit is given as a Spiritual Blessing to all for whom Christ died and redeemed [See Gal 3:13-14] that they may know [come to know experientially] that Christ gave Himself for us Gal 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
We need to be given the Spirit first to come to know this Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1 Tim 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Mk 10:45
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
And the Spirit is given to all for whom He gave Himself for that they may come to know it in a for real spiritual manner ! 5
1 Cor 2:12
12 Now we [Believers] have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
The Spirit is given as a Spiritual Blessing to all for whom Christ died and redeemed [See Gal 3:13-14] that they may know [come to know experientially] that Christ gave Himself for us Gal 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
We need to be given the Spirit first to come to know this Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1 Tim 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Mk 10:45
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
And the Spirit is given to all for whom He gave Himself for that they may come to know it in a for real spiritual manner ! 5
Tenchi
Active Member
The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. (Jn. 16:8). He does not need to indwell a person in a born-again sense, though, in order to do this. In fact, several instances in Acts demonstrate that he "comes upon" a person in a spiritually-regenerative way only after they've heard and believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I've already pointed this out in an earlier post, which you've ignored.
Acts 19:1-7
1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
7 There were in all about twelve men.
This was the same order of events described in Acts 10 concerning Cornelius and his relatives who were also converted. They, too, heard the Gospel, believed it and then the Holy Spirit came upon them.
The very same order of events is laid out in Acts 8:
Acts 8:14-17
14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
See? Folks in Samaria had received (heard and believed) the "word of God" (i.e. the Gospel). And so, the apostles, Peter and John, were sent to the Samaritan believers to impart to them the Holy Spirit who had not yet fallen upon any of them.
This plain and repeated ordo salutis aside, it is a bizarre notion - one of many in Calvinism - that God essentially saves a person in order so that they may believe the Gospel and be saved. Scripture makes salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit synonymous (Ro. 8:9-14; 1 Jn. 4:13; Tit. 3:5; Jn. 3:3-8). To be saved is to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. So, then, a person who is so indwelt is "born-again," spiritually-regenerated, made a new creature in Christ, etc. You are proposing that this spiritual "second birth" actually happens entirely apart from the hearing and belief in the Gospel, as Calvinism (not Scripture) demands. But this isn't what God's word indicates:
Luke 8:11-12
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then the devil comes, and takes the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
John 1:12
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your house.
1 John 5:10
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
Why, if God saves people entirely without their having heard and believed the Gospel, do they need to hear and believe the Gospel? They have been saved already without doing so.
What sort of initial regeneration is it that requires a second "saving" through the hearing and belief in the Gospel? Is it correct to call it regeneration since, it seems, more is required to complete the regeneration? Why couldn't the Spirit simply move upon a lost person as he did upon, say, Samson, giving them temporary illumination of the Gospel, as he gave Samson temporary strength?
Surely, you can see why people scoff at these contortions Calvinism forces folks like yourself to make in its defense and why, then, it is of no interest to them.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Tenchi
Active Member
Uh huh.
Mathetes66
Member
Isaiah 46:13 I bring near My righteousness; it will not be far off & my salvation will not tarry & I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Isaiah 45:22 Turn to Me & be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God & there is no other.
Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:12-13 For there is no difference between Jew & Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all & gives richly to all who call on Him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
John 1:11-13 He came to His own & His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who BELIEVED IN HIS NAME, He gave the right to BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD—children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
John 3:18 He that BELIEVETH ON HIM is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is condemned already, because he hath NOT BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that YE MIGHT BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God & that BY BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE through his name.
Luke 7:44-50 And he turned to the woman & said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears & wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath NOT CEASED to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; FOR SHE LOVED MUCH; but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little...And he said to the woman, "THY FAITH HAS SAVED THEE--go in peace.
Ps 66:16-19 Come & hear, ALL ye that fear God... I called out to Him with my mouth & He was exalted with my tongue. Were I to cherish iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not listen to me. But God has surely heard; He has attended to the sound of my prayer.
John 9:31-38 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God & doeth his will, HIM HE HEARETH!. Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. They answered...Thou wast altogether born in sins & dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. Jesus heard that they had cast him out & when he had found him, he said...Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered & said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said...Thou hast both seen him & it is he that talketh with thee. 38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Isa 56:6,7 And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD to minister to Him...I will bring them to My holy mt & make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings & sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS.”
Acts 10:1-6; 19-48 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion...He & all his family were devout & God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need & prayed to God regularly. One day...he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God...& said...“Your prayers & gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering BEFORE GOD. Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter... the Spirit said to Him, Simon, 3 men are looking for you... FOR I HAVE SENT THEM... The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous & God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
The next day Peter started out with them & some of THE BELIEVERS from Joppa went along. The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them & had CALLED TOGETHER his relatives & close friends. As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him & fell at his feet & worshiped him. But Peter made him get up...I am only a man myself.”
...Peter went inside & found a large gathering of people. He said to them: “You are well aware that it is AGAINST OUR LAW for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I SHOULD NOT CALL ANYONE IMPURE OR UNCLEAN. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask WHY DID YOU SEND FOR ME?” Cornelius answered: “...Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me & said, ‘Cornelius, God HAS HEARD YOUR PRAYER & REMEMBERED YOUR GIFTS TO THE POOR. Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter...So I sent for you immediately...Now we are all here in the PRESENCE OF GOD to listen to everything THE LORD HAS COMMANDED YOU TO TELL US.”
Then Peter began to speak: “I KNOW REALIZE how true it is that God DOES NOT SHOW FAVORITISM but IN EVERY NATION THE MAN WHO FEARS HIM & DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS WELCOME TO HIM... He commanded us to preach to the people & to testify that he is the one whom God appointed AS JUDGE OF THE LIVING & THE DEAD. ALL THE PROPHETS testify about Him that EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM RECEIVES forgiveness of sins through his name.”
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit CAME ON ALL WHO HEARD THE MESSAGE. The circumcised BELIEVERS who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For THEY HEARD THEM speaking in tongues & praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT--JUST AS WE HAVE.”
**Acts 11:1,11,14-18 The apostles & THE BELIEVERS throughout Judea heard that the GENTILES ALSO HAD RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD...But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning & EXPOUNDED IT BY ORDER UNTO THEM...But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common...And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood & said unto him, Send men to Joppa & call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14Who shall tell thee words, "WHEREBY THOU & ALL THY HOUSE WILL BE SAVED."
15And as I began to speak, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, WHO BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST; what was I, that I could WITHSTAND GOD? 18When they heard these things, they held their peace & glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Acts 16:13-15 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were thinking that there was A PLACE OF PRAYER & we sat down & began speaking to the women WHO HAD ASSEMBLED [to pray]. A woman named Lydia WAS LISTENING; she was a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira & A WORSHIPER OF GOD. The Lord OPENED HER HEART TO RESPOND TO THE THINGS SPOKEN BY PAUL.
All the verses above & throughout Scripture attest that people are saved by grace through the instrument of faith in the Messiah; they receive forgiveness of sins & our Lord attests that it it THEIR FAITH that has saved them before they are born again of God by the Spirit.
The man born blind recognized that Jesus had healed him & nowhere had people ever heard of anyone healing someone of blindness since birth. He knew that Jesus had to have come from God in order to do this, yet he didn't yet recognize Jesus as THE SON OF GOD, DIVINE. When Jesus found him after he was thrown out of the synagogue, He revealed Himself to the blind man now seeing. Once the blind man recognized Jesus for who He is, he then believed & worshiped Him & followed Jesus as His disciple.
Cornelius, the Gentile centurion was what Jews called a God fearer & one who prayed & gave to the poor. Lydia, a Gentile God fearer, who helped others by her cloths, was also one who sought God in prayer. Both of these Gentiles WERE NOT SAVED UNTIL God brought someone (Peter, Paul) to preach to them the good news, the word of God.
Isaiah 45:22 Turn to Me & be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God & there is no other.
Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:12-13 For there is no difference between Jew & Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all & gives richly to all who call on Him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
John 1:11-13 He came to His own & His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who BELIEVED IN HIS NAME, He gave the right to BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD—children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
John 3:18 He that BELIEVETH ON HIM is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is condemned already, because he hath NOT BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 20:31 But these are written, that YE MIGHT BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God & that BY BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE through his name.
Luke 7:44-50 And he turned to the woman & said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears & wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath NOT CEASED to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; FOR SHE LOVED MUCH; but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little...And he said to the woman, "THY FAITH HAS SAVED THEE--go in peace.
Ps 66:16-19 Come & hear, ALL ye that fear God... I called out to Him with my mouth & He was exalted with my tongue. Were I to cherish iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not listen to me. But God has surely heard; He has attended to the sound of my prayer.
John 9:31-38 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God & doeth his will, HIM HE HEARETH!. Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. They answered...Thou wast altogether born in sins & dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. Jesus heard that they had cast him out & when he had found him, he said...Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered & said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said...Thou hast both seen him & it is he that talketh with thee. 38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Isa 56:6,7 And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD to minister to Him...I will bring them to My holy mt & make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings & sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS.”
Acts 10:1-6; 19-48 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion...He & all his family were devout & God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need & prayed to God regularly. One day...he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God...& said...“Your prayers & gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering BEFORE GOD. Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter... the Spirit said to Him, Simon, 3 men are looking for you... FOR I HAVE SENT THEM... The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous & God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
The next day Peter started out with them & some of THE BELIEVERS from Joppa went along. The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them & had CALLED TOGETHER his relatives & close friends. As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him & fell at his feet & worshiped him. But Peter made him get up...I am only a man myself.”
...Peter went inside & found a large gathering of people. He said to them: “You are well aware that it is AGAINST OUR LAW for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I SHOULD NOT CALL ANYONE IMPURE OR UNCLEAN. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask WHY DID YOU SEND FOR ME?” Cornelius answered: “...Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me & said, ‘Cornelius, God HAS HEARD YOUR PRAYER & REMEMBERED YOUR GIFTS TO THE POOR. Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter...So I sent for you immediately...Now we are all here in the PRESENCE OF GOD to listen to everything THE LORD HAS COMMANDED YOU TO TELL US.”
Then Peter began to speak: “I KNOW REALIZE how true it is that God DOES NOT SHOW FAVORITISM but IN EVERY NATION THE MAN WHO FEARS HIM & DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS WELCOME TO HIM... He commanded us to preach to the people & to testify that he is the one whom God appointed AS JUDGE OF THE LIVING & THE DEAD. ALL THE PROPHETS testify about Him that EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM RECEIVES forgiveness of sins through his name.”
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit CAME ON ALL WHO HEARD THE MESSAGE. The circumcised BELIEVERS who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For THEY HEARD THEM speaking in tongues & praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT--JUST AS WE HAVE.”
**Acts 11:1,11,14-18 The apostles & THE BELIEVERS throughout Judea heard that the GENTILES ALSO HAD RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD...But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning & EXPOUNDED IT BY ORDER UNTO THEM...But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common...And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood & said unto him, Send men to Joppa & call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14Who shall tell thee words, "WHEREBY THOU & ALL THY HOUSE WILL BE SAVED."
15And as I began to speak, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, WHO BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST; what was I, that I could WITHSTAND GOD? 18When they heard these things, they held their peace & glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Acts 16:13-15 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were thinking that there was A PLACE OF PRAYER & we sat down & began speaking to the women WHO HAD ASSEMBLED [to pray]. A woman named Lydia WAS LISTENING; she was a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira & A WORSHIPER OF GOD. The Lord OPENED HER HEART TO RESPOND TO THE THINGS SPOKEN BY PAUL.
All the verses above & throughout Scripture attest that people are saved by grace through the instrument of faith in the Messiah; they receive forgiveness of sins & our Lord attests that it it THEIR FAITH that has saved them before they are born again of God by the Spirit.
The man born blind recognized that Jesus had healed him & nowhere had people ever heard of anyone healing someone of blindness since birth. He knew that Jesus had to have come from God in order to do this, yet he didn't yet recognize Jesus as THE SON OF GOD, DIVINE. When Jesus found him after he was thrown out of the synagogue, He revealed Himself to the blind man now seeing. Once the blind man recognized Jesus for who He is, he then believed & worshiped Him & followed Jesus as His disciple.
Cornelius, the Gentile centurion was what Jews called a God fearer & one who prayed & gave to the poor. Lydia, a Gentile God fearer, who helped others by her cloths, was also one who sought God in prayer. Both of these Gentiles WERE NOT SAVED UNTIL God brought someone (Peter, Paul) to preach to them the good news, the word of God.
Mathetes66
Member
(continued) Peter clearly stated that Cornelius WASN'T SAVED until Peter preached the word of God to them. He stated all those Gentiles received the Holy Spirit AFTER THEY BELIEVED, just as the disciples & apostles had received Him! They had believed in Christ BEFORE they received the Holy Spirit. So too, Peter stated concerning Cornelius & the Gentile believers: THE SAME WAY. Cornelius was seeking God, fearing Him, praying to Him regularly & giving alms to the poor, ALL BEFORE HE WAS SAVED BY FAITH IN CHRIST & BEFORE HE & HIS FAMILY RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT!
Send men to Joppa & call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING...Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? Did Christ's disciples believe before or after they were baptized in the Holy Spirit? It was BEFORE...exactly as Peter stated had happened to them. They were seekers of God. God recognized their prayers, people who feared God & were seeking to find Him. God honors that & says He will reward those who diligently seek Him.
Heb 11:6 But without faith IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM;: for he that cometh to God MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS [exists] AND that He is a REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM.
Genesis 15:6 Abram BELIEVED THE LORD & it was CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me & find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing & hearing by the word of God.
Mt 7:7-8 Ask & it will be given to you; seek & you will find; knock & the door will be opened to you. For EVERYONE WHO ASKS RECEIVES; he WHO SEEKS FINDS & to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Send men to Joppa & call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING...Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? Did Christ's disciples believe before or after they were baptized in the Holy Spirit? It was BEFORE...exactly as Peter stated had happened to them. They were seekers of God. God recognized their prayers, people who feared God & were seeking to find Him. God honors that & says He will reward those who diligently seek Him.
Heb 11:6 But without faith IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM;: for he that cometh to God MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS [exists] AND that He is a REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM.
Genesis 15:6 Abram BELIEVED THE LORD & it was CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me & find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing & hearing by the word of God.
Mt 7:7-8 Ask & it will be given to you; seek & you will find; knock & the door will be opened to you. For EVERYONE WHO ASKS RECEIVES; he WHO SEEKS FINDS & to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:10,9
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The Spirit, which is also Christ's Spirit, or the Spirit of Christ Vs 9 it is given to all for whom Christ died because of Righteousness. His Death for them established them as Righteous Rom 5:19 and where Righteousness is, Life is demanded !
Christ's death for their sins erased for them the penalty of sin, which death in all of its phases is the wages of Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
But now that Christ satisfied for them that death wage, a reversal is due unto them, which means death is abolished and Life must be granted, because of Righteousness. When we read that Christ rose from the dead after having died for the sins of God's People, it states that He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
That word Justification, the greek word dikaiósis means:
acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.
There has for them been a discharge of the debt of death owed because of sin, a absolution means:
act of absolving; a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.
Justification also means:
the act of God's declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him; adjudging to be righteous,
acquittal, which brings with it the bestowment of life,
Hence we read also in Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The Life here is Resurrection and Spiritual Life, that releases the Justified ones by Christ's Death, releases them from Spiritual Death by giving them Life by the Spirit of their resurrected Head communicated to them, because of His Righteousness now being charged to their account !
So to them, The Spirit is Life [it bestows it] because of Righteousness ! 5
Rom 8:10,9
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The Spirit, which is also Christ's Spirit, or the Spirit of Christ Vs 9 it is given to all for whom Christ died because of Righteousness. His Death for them established them as Righteous Rom 5:19 and where Righteousness is, Life is demanded !
Christ's death for their sins erased for them the penalty of sin, which death in all of its phases is the wages of Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
But now that Christ satisfied for them that death wage, a reversal is due unto them, which means death is abolished and Life must be granted, because of Righteousness. When we read that Christ rose from the dead after having died for the sins of God's People, it states that He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
That word Justification, the greek word dikaiósis means:
acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.
There has for them been a discharge of the debt of death owed because of sin, a absolution means:
act of absolving; a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.
Justification also means:
the act of God's declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him; adjudging to be righteous,
acquittal, which brings with it the bestowment of life,
Hence we read also in Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The Life here is Resurrection and Spiritual Life, that releases the Justified ones by Christ's Death, releases them from Spiritual Death by giving them Life by the Spirit of their resurrected Head communicated to them, because of His Righteousness now being charged to their account !
So to them, The Spirit is Life [it bestows it] because of Righteousness ! 5
Tenchi
Active Member
Inasmuch as Christ died "once for all" (Ro. 6:10; He. 7:27; 10:10; 1 Pe. 3:18, etc.) that is, for the whole world (Jn. 1:29; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47; 17:21, 2 Cor. 5:19, etc.), any lost person who puts their trust in Christ as their Savior and yields to him as Lord receives the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Ro.8:9).
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Please quit spamming the word of God ,not understanding one of those verses.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Holy Spirit convicted sinners !
Jn 16:8-10
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
The sinners that Christ came to seek and to save, to call to repentance are not merely sinners by nature, of which all men are, but sinners by Holy Spirit reproving, conviction !
There is a world of men to whom Christ is a Saviour to, and everyone of them shall be convinced of their need of Him by Holy Spirit conviction, and not a natural legal conviction wrought by conscience, but a Spirit wrought conviction, and hence these are the ones Jesus calls to repentance Matt 9:13
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
In fact, thats what happened on the day of pentecost in abundance , when a large number had been convicted of sin by the Spirit, then by the preaching of the Gospel by the Apostles, they were called to repentance Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
See what sinners were called to repentance here ? Those type of sinners were called to repentance, Holy Spirit wrought conviction, look at Vs 39
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
This shows that those in Vs 37-38 had been called, and many shall yet be called because of Holy Spirit conviction wrought in them. CP the word called in Acts 2:39 and Matt 9:13 its the same word !
The only difference is the word in Acts 2:39 has the prep pros attached which means towards, as many as God shall call towards Himself ! All sinners are not Holy Spirit filled sinners ! 6
Jn 16:8-10
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
The sinners that Christ came to seek and to save, to call to repentance are not merely sinners by nature, of which all men are, but sinners by Holy Spirit reproving, conviction !
There is a world of men to whom Christ is a Saviour to, and everyone of them shall be convinced of their need of Him by Holy Spirit conviction, and not a natural legal conviction wrought by conscience, but a Spirit wrought conviction, and hence these are the ones Jesus calls to repentance Matt 9:13
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
In fact, thats what happened on the day of pentecost in abundance , when a large number had been convicted of sin by the Spirit, then by the preaching of the Gospel by the Apostles, they were called to repentance Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
See what sinners were called to repentance here ? Those type of sinners were called to repentance, Holy Spirit wrought conviction, look at Vs 39
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
This shows that those in Vs 37-38 had been called, and many shall yet be called because of Holy Spirit conviction wrought in them. CP the word called in Acts 2:39 and Matt 9:13 its the same word !
The only difference is the word in Acts 2:39 has the prep pros attached which means towards, as many as God shall call towards Himself ! All sinners are not Holy Spirit filled sinners ! 6
Tenchi
Active Member
"Spamming" the word of God? Interesting. I'd have thought that, of the two of us, you've been the one doing the "spamming"...
Do you know how the conviction of the Holy Spirit is distinguished from a mere guilty conscience which any atheist can suffer? Are you being "convicted" by the Spirit if you do something wrong and you feel ashamed and guilty about it? No. As I said, a prick of conscience is no more than any unbeliever feels when they violate their conscience. What, then, are you talking about, exactly, when you say the Holy Spirit convicts sinners? Do you actually know how the Bible distinguishes the conviction of the Spirit from a mere pang of conscience?
And so, what is a "Spirit-wrought conviction," exactly? Do you know?
Acts 2:36-38
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Does Luke indicate here in his account of Peter's preaching that the Holy Spirit convicted the hearers of Peter's words? No. You've just assumed that this is the case. When the hearers ask what they ought to do in response to Peter's words, he lays out an ordo salutis that is the reverse of what you've put forward: Repent (change your mind) > act on your change of mind (be baptized) > then receive the Holy Spirit. Only after Peter's audience had heard the Gospel, believed it and acted in expression of that belief would they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:39-40
39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
What else did Peter say on this head?
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Paul agrees entirely with Peter on this point:
1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
Is, then, the "call" of God through the convicting work of the Spirit only for a select few? It sure doesn't look like it to me. So, we finally agree, Brightfame52: As you say, God has many He is calling to salvation. In fact, He has made salvation available to any and all who will receive it.
John 1:12
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Denying Truth and creating rabbit trails
Tenchi
Active Member
This is just deflection and dismissal which demonstrates, I think, how poorly-equipped you are to contend effectively for the assertions you've been making about the Holy Spirit.