The Image of God IS Freewill

[Ran the Man]

"Calvinists", at least the ones that I am aware of, have never stated that in any piece of writing or verbage that I have been exposed to.
I've also seen and heard that charge leveled at them for years now, that they teach that God makes His children into obedient zombies.
He doesn't.

Rather, He changes their nature...making them perfectly willing to go along with God, despite their sinful flesh, and that they wrestle with doing God's will on occasion because of it.
Their new nature is to do God's will, but their flesh wants to do the opposite ( Romans 7:14-25, Galatians 5:17 ).


"Twisted his arm?"
I agree, from a certain point of view.

In Jonah's case, he hated the people of Nineveh because of their wickedness and because they were enemies of the Jews...and he wanted God to judge them; God's purpose was to send Jonah and have him preach repentance to them...he ran the other direction, God firmly convinced His wayward servant that it was in his best interests to obey Him, and so Jonah had a change of heart when he was forced to sit in the belly of the whale for 3 days and 3 nights contemplating his relationship with God.


Similar to Job, he "saw" that God was just a little larger than what Jonah had initially given Him credit for, and that God's will gets done whether or not men like to do it.
In some places they call it, "having an attitude adjustment".



In the case of God's children, the nature is changed and they then begin to naturally gravitate towards doing His will and listening to Him, instead of fighting Him and ignoring Him.
But again, they sometimes wrestle with obeying Him.

There is no difference between changing someone's nature and turning them into a zombie. You need to read about brainwashing.

 

[Ran the Man]

You are expert at adding two plus two and getting 7.

No, it's basic common sense. Of course, you'll negate it by calling it human wisdom.

 

[MartyF]

Thanks for your responses.

While I do not believe mankind has freewill, I am attempting to gain insight into what those who do believe in it believe about it. Does every one, non-repentant and repentant sinners, have it? Where they born with it? Can they lose it? If they lose it, can they regain it?

As for God's children:
Rom 6:16 KJV - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

As far as I know, no servant has freewill. If your servitude leads to death your master is satan. If your servitude leads to righteousness, your master is God. I do see where freewill is in accordance with this scripture.​

Gal 3:1 KJV - O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Clearly an outside influence (“who hath bewitched you") caused them to disobey the truth.​

Gal 5:7 KJV - Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

Freewill?​

Jesus Christ surrendered His freewill to His Father's will. Therefore, since you profess that you have freewill, I beseech you to do likewise.

My Bible does not reveal any interaction between Adam and the serpent as you stated.

If you chose, you can put me on your "ignore" list. Best to ya.

Well, let's give this a chance then.

First, before we even go anywhere we have to agree on terms. For example you said

My understanding of freewill that no bias or outside influence swayed your decision.

Bias and outside influence sways every decision. I and I believe even RantheMan would agree that we don't live in a vacuum. We have biases and our decision are swayed by our environment. So we are in agreement and we can shake on it and walk away?

Do you just not like the word free-will? Well, I don't like it either. I would rather say that we can make decisions and those decisions are not fully dictated by God and our environment. Humans were made to rule the earth and not the other way around.

I don't like the term free-will either as it is a loaded term which comes from Arminianism. The free-will of Arminianism is really nothing but an illusionary free-will.

But as far as bias and outside influence on our decisions and actions. Yeah, I agree that there is bias and outside influence on everyone's actions. I don't think there is anyone, anywhere who doesn't believe this is true. So, if you're trying to find someone to argue against about this, you'll have to build a straw man.

But do you believe that everyone's actions are fully and exhaustively dictated by God and the environment he created?

 

[Ran the Man]

Well, let's give this a chance then.

First, before we even go anywhere we have to agree on terms. For example you said



Bias and outside influence sways every decision. I and I believe even RantheMan would agree that we don't live in a vacuum. We have biases and our decision are swayed by our environment. So we are in agreement and we can shake on it and walk away?

Do you just not like the word free-will? Well, I don't like it either. I would rather say that we can make decisions and those decisions are not fully dictated by God and our environment. Humans were made to rule the earth and not the other way around.

I don't like the term free-will either as it is a loaded term which comes from Arminianism. The free-will of Arminianism is really nothing but an illusionary free-will.

But as far as bias and outside influence on our decisions and actions. Yeah, I agree that there is bias and outside influence on everyone's actions. I don't think there is anyone, anywhere who doesn't believe this is true. So, if you're trying to find someone to argue against about this, you'll have to build a straw man.

But do you believe that everyone's actions are fully and exhaustively dictated by God and the environment he created?

I like your clarification of the so called freewill I spoke of. I ,as you, do not believe in 100% non influenced freewill. I also do not believe God fully and exhaustively controls all things.

 

[Reynolds]

No, it's basic common sense. Of course, you'll negate it by calling it human wisdom.

No, I won't elevate it to the position of "human wisdom."

 

[Reynolds]

I like your clarification of the so called freewill I spoke of. I ,as you, do not believe in 100% non influenced freewill. I also do not believe God fully and exhaustively controls all things.

Agree to an extent. I agree in limited free will. He does control everything. He is like the King that tells his servants "This year, you may plant Wheat, Corn, Barley, Rye, Cotton or Soy Beans." The King is in control and the subject has limited "free will."

 

[Ran the Man]

Agree to an extent. I agree in limited free will. He does control everything. He is like the King that tells his servants "This year, you may plant Wheat, Corn, Barley, Rye, Cotton or Soy Beans." The King is in control and the subject has limited "free will."

Why does it have to be that way? You know the bible says the earth is for man. Whatsoever we bind on earth is bound in heaven. Why not a God who gives us autonomy, and we reap the rewards or the penalties we sow?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As Ran is now banned for denial of the inspiration of the Bible, this thread is closed.