The Inspiration

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
God inspired the original autographs. They were lost so that we don't have a Catholic Church built over them, worshiping them.

God preserved those words in copies. No single copy is perfect, but by evaulating hundreds of said copies (and copies of copies of copies) the words of the original are preserved.

All faithful translations from those preserved documents "derive" inspiration and are trustworthy. While the AV does not use the whole gammut of Greek documents, it is derived inspired. Derived.

That has to be the most educated response to this dilemma, but it leaves one without any final authority, but themselves, of course, and satan tried just that in the Garden of Eden, then God has never let the serpent by with that, and NEVER will.

It amazes me how one will use the aspect of self-promotion as well as promote financial opportunity, in the name of "un"-education.

The problemistic nature of men thwarts forth in his continual demise in remaiming in a state of uncertainty to what is the Word of God, best stick to the KJB

 

[Paul of Eugene]

Well, Plain Ol' Ralph, I submit that by deciding to stick to the KJB, you have made the decision to do that ultimately on your own authority, having chosen to go along with the crowd that believes that way rather than the crowd that believes other translations are valid; and therefore you have not really escaped your "dilemma"!

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Oh, there's that word "stick"...as in my "straight stick"...as in that which is crooked cannot be made straight & my stick helps me to see that... yeah, think I'll stick to my straight stick;it's worked a mighty long time!

 

[natters]

My stick is straighter and older.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Mine gets the most flack.

 

[natters]

My stick is straighter and older.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

And mine still gets the most flack...wonder why that is?

 

[natters]

I don't know. Maybe because more people have heard of yours.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

So yours is the ONLY one you use?

 

[natters]

No, but it's old and straight. In fact, they used it as a guide to make your stick.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

So, if you use more than one, how then do you know which one is straight? Reckon I'm not old enough to have been around to read your stick; all I've ever known is mine & I like it fine. I would never wish to change anyone's mind as to what they use to live their life by, but why is there so much animosity towards my stick?

Just look at the recent threads and the use of unChrist-like words/attitudes that have bombarded the board lately. It just tightens my grip on that blessed old book even more. I may not agree with anything they've said, but I'm free to have my own ideals. We can have this argument till the cows come home, but I will always believe the way I do. So what's the beef?

 

[natters]

GrannyGumbo said "So, if you use more than one, how then do you know which one is straight?"

Same way you would, I suppose.

GrannyGumbo said "Reckon I'm not old enough to have been around to read your stick"

I don't understand this comment. Our ages have nothing to do with it.

GrannyGumbo said "but why is there so much animosity towards my stick?"

I don't know. Are you sure the animosity is towards your stick, and not the pedestal you put it on?

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Yup, it's towards my bible; actually, it would seem the other side are the ones who have it on a pedestal. There's been too much mockery towards it and they have it in a spotlight. I've been saddened by all this tomfoolery. I haven't taken the first thread seriously.

Had God saved me 50 yrs ago thru' another kind, I firmly believe I still would have found my way to this one, because I always seek His true and perfect will for my life. But I don't think there was anything else around, at least in my neck of the piney woods. If mine came from yours, then it's kin. I can call it my straight stick because it is straight. I've never used another and by faith, it is exactly what the Lord would have me read to understand Him.

 

[natters]

GrannyGumbo said "Yup, it's towards my bible"

I don't think it's towards your Bible. I suspect you are misunderstanding the other posters.

GrannyGumbo said "I always seek His true and perfect will for my life."

That is excellent!

GrannyGumbo said "If mine came from yours, then it's kin."

Yes, it's kin.

My stick has a lot of kin.

GrannyGumbo said "I can call it my straight stick because it is straight."

Yes, yours is pretty straight. I know mine is straighter because it is straighter.

GrannyGumbo said "I've never used another and by faith, it is exactly what the Lord would have me read to understand Him."

By faith? Can you explain this more?

 

[HankD]

That has to be the most educated response to this dilemma, but it leaves one without any final authority, but themselves, of course,

and the final authority of the KJVO? the AV1611, the outcome of King James titular head of the Church of England, founded by Henry the Eighth because the Pope wouldn’t give him a divorce to his first wife Catherine so that he could marry Anne Boleyn (whose head he later removed). In all he had six wives.

Henry also had William Tyndale burned at the stake for translating the Scriptures into English. A few days later he also had 14 ana-baptists burned at the stake for their beliefs.

This is just a small part of the persecutions and slaughter perpetrated upon the Puritans, dissenters and ana-baptist by the Church of England.

http://www.fbinstitute.com/engbible/7.html

BTW, King James also has the dubious distinction of being the last English king to have Anabaptist “hereticks” put to death.

Had you and I lived then we could have been among them.

http://www.exlibris.org/nonconform/engdis/anabaptists.html

King Henry the 8th, King James and the Church of England who persecuted and killed our spiritual forefathers, this is your final authority?

HankD

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Yup, it's towards my bible; actually, it would seem the other side are the ones who have it on a pedestal. There's been too much mockery towards it and they have it in a spotlight. I've been saddened by all this tomfoolery. I haven't taken the first thread seriously.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/1707.html?

Poll Results: Simple poll for KJVOs (25 votes.)
For KJVOs. Do those who use modern versions reject the KJV?
Choose 1
Yes 20% (5)
No 8% (2)
Not a KJVO 72% (18)

71% of our resident KJVOs believe the
modern version users reject the KJV.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/1586.html?

Poll Results: Real: do you hate the KJV poll (58 votes.)
Do you hate the KJV ?
Choose 1
Yes, i hate the KJV 5% (3)
No, i do NOT hate the KJV 91% (53)
answer for the ignorant, apathetic, and etc. 3% (2)

5% of the members here do NOT hate the KJV

I read this to mean that 71% of the KJVOs
here are fighting 5% of the modern version
users. Thank about that, but don't blame it
on the modern version users.

BTW, i have some pretty good arguments
that that straight edge Bible Granny use
is a MODERN VERSION. that version did not
exist until 1769 long after the
first seven English Versions 1300-1611.

Don't nobody say i don't love the KJV1769.
I was reading it when Granny was in diapers

But I love to praise Jesus in 17th Century talk:

Praise Iesus, the Christ

 

[GrannyGumbo]

By faith? Can you explain this more?

"I will tell you what it is NOT: it is not sentimentality or emotions or feelings. Now surely you know what by faith means, don't you? Thought so".

 

[Trotter]

Actually, Granny, the animosity is not toward your bible, but toward the man-made lie that some parade around these parts as the second half of the gospel.

True, your King James has come under some fire, but not to destroy it. You see, when someone comes in claiming that THEIR bible is right and yours is wrong, well, you just gotta prove it one way or another.

The KJV has been held up by these as being "perfect," "without flaw," "inerrant," "inspired." As to these, I can live with the third in that all bibles are the inerrant word of God (at least those that are faithful translations, not those produced by cults or opinions/paraphrases). And I can tip my hat to the fourth in that God inspired the original authors to write the words that God wanted written. But, unfortunately, this is not what they define these as.

When somebody jumps up and tries to say that God "reinspired" the bible in 1611, and that theirs is the only word of God, and that the translators were prevented from making any error in their tranlating (yeah, and all those 'revisions' were just so the editors could draw a paycheck), we will stand against it every time.

Nothing wrong with your stick, Granny. But it ain't the only stick in the world, and it wasn't typed out by the prophets of 1611, either. It is God's word, just like the other translations that we use.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[natters]

Yes GrannyGumbo, I know what faith is. I'm just wondering what prompted this faith.

Good comments Trotter. I am reminded that when something comes "under fire" in scripture, it is not always for antagonistic reasons. Often it is because it is loved: fire purifies and purges the dross.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Interesting, instead of discussing what is the meaning
of "inspiration" of the Holy Scriptures, folks want
to talk about "final authority".

Sorry folks, i'm not going to play this game.
My final authority is the traditional Baptist final authority:
Soul Competency/Priesthood of the Believer.
I have the authority and duty to take up the understanding
of the Holy Bible before God -- God and I alone.
The Living Word (Logos) of God is my Final Authority.
None of the 100s of Good English versions of the Bible,
no written word (rehma) of God is my Final Authority.

Excerpts from Ed's catalogue of KJVO double standards:

---014 - If you believe that more than one version is the word of God, then even though you can give scriptural evidence of more than one version being the word of God, your final authority is your own self. BUT.... If you believe that the only word of God in the English language is the KJV, then even though you can give absolutely no scriptural evidence of that, your final authority is the Spirit.

---203 - It is alright to make your KJV1769 your Final Authority,
but NOT any one MV or any group of MVs.

---204 - if you cannot understand the KJV; your pastor, the supreme authority on the language, is allowed to decipher it for you

---205 - It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the local church pastor to decipher any archaic or difficult words in the KJV; however, even a Hebrew/Greek scholar is an abomination before God.

---206 - "I don't care what the Latin Vulgate says, and I don't need to know what it says." -- apathy (I don't care) and ignorance (I don't know)

--- 211 - KJV-onlyists accuse non-KJV-onlyists of having no objective

standard with which to critically evaluate modern versions (and hence

we are supposed to believe that all of them are equally faithful);

however, they reserve the right to evaluate any modern version against

their subjective and arbitrary standard, the KJV.

But I love to praise Jesus in 17th Century talk:

Praise Iesus, the Christ